Waterloo Region Connected

Full Version: GO Transit
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
All DoFo wants to do is exactly the opposite of what was in place - he has used his absolute personal hate for one person rule his entire agenda, and is absolutely decimating the province in the process. It’s absolutely sickening.

How we let this happen, I will never, ever understand.
The people wanted change and didn't stop to consider the ramifications of electing a dumpster fire because the PCs are the typical change option from the Liberals and vice versa.
It doesn't help that our electoral system is preferential towards strong men and authoritarians instead of cooperation.

That one's on the Liberals at this point.
(12-18-2018, 04:20 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: [ -> ]The freight bypass is officially cancelled.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener...-1.4950670

"My friends, we're going to have the best 2-hour train service to Toronto that the province has ever seen.*"

* assuming you leave and return during the prescribed times, and not on weekends.
(12-19-2018, 11:38 AM)timio Wrote: [ -> ]The people wanted change and didn't stop to consider the ramifications of electing a dumpster fire because the PCs are the typical change option from the Liberals and vice versa.

This is not the fault of Ontarians. They were signalling strongly for a long time that they were going to elect a PC government this year, and it didn't matter who the leader was. This should be laid at the feet of the party's membership, who chose this leader with that knowledge. Or perhaps the party leadership, which chose a voting method that resulted in the candidate for leadership who received the most votes (Christine Elliott) not being awarded the most "points" and losing the race.

Either way, it is the party's error, and I expect it will be punished for it. Ontario doesn't have a history of giving a party only one term in office before another change, but this will be an exception.

Which means I think this will be an unfortunate setback, but just a setback. Maybe KW will get a few extra trains over the next few years. The more serious issue, travel time, unfortunately won't be ameliorated, but there could be some incremental improvement there, too.

There really is a limit to how much damage can be done in four years. And a silver lining might be that the indicators of congestion impacting economic competitiveness become more and more obvious to everyone, and a big program of transit investment might be sell-able by the next government.
(12-20-2018, 11:01 AM)MidTowner Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-19-2018, 11:38 AM)timio Wrote: [ -> ]The people wanted change and didn't stop to consider the ramifications of electing a dumpster fire because the PCs are the typical change option from the Liberals and vice versa.

This is not the fault of Ontarians. They were signalling strongly for a long time that they were going to elect a PC government this year, and it didn't matter who the leader was. This should be laid at the feet of the party's membership, who chose this leader with that knowledge. Or perhaps the party leadership, which chose a voting method that resulted in the candidate for leadership who received the most votes (Christine Elliott) not being awarded the most "points" and losing the race.

Either way, it is the party's error, and I expect it will be punished for it. Ontario doesn't have a history of giving a party only one term in office before another change, but this will be an exception.

Which means I think this will be an unfortunate setback, but just a setback. Maybe KW will get a few extra trains over the next few years. The more serious issue, travel time, unfortunately won't be ameliorated, but there could be some incremental improvement there, too.

There really is a limit to how much damage can be done in four years. And a silver lining might be that the indicators of congestion impacting economic competitiveness become more and more obvious to everyone, and a big program of transit investment might be sell-able by the next government.

The party leadership was chosen before the general election.  Every person who voted knew they were voting for Ford...with full knowledge of his personality and qualifications.  I don't forgive them that.  There are plenty of other parties to vote for.

In fact, the biggest thing I put on the party right now, is their unwillingness to stand up for their values against their leader.  Christine Elliot included.

This is more than a small setback, this is an absolute minimum 4 year extension to an already way too late project.  The tech industry won't wait around, the damage of the lack of transportation will already be done.  Even if this doesn't serve as a deathblow to transit in general, by serving as a failure, it won't be this area that justifies investment by the time this comes up again.
(12-20-2018, 11:01 AM)MidTowner Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-19-2018, 11:38 AM)timio Wrote: [ -> ]The people wanted change and didn't stop to consider the ramifications of electing a dumpster fire because the PCs are the typical change option from the Liberals and vice versa.

This is not the fault of Ontarians. They were signalling strongly for a long time that they were going to elect a PC government this year, and it didn't matter who the leader was. This should be laid at the feet of the party's membership, who chose this leader with that knowledge. Or perhaps the party leadership, which chose a voting method that resulted in the candidate for leadership who received the most votes (Christine Elliott) not being awarded the most "points" and losing the race.

Either way, it is the party's error, and I expect it will be punished for it. Ontario doesn't have a history of giving a party only one term in office before another change, but this will be an exception.

Which means I think this will be an unfortunate setback, but just a setback. Maybe KW will get a few extra trains over the next few years. The more serious issue, travel time, unfortunately won't be ameliorated, but there could be some incremental improvement there, too.

There really is a limit to how much damage can be done in four years. And a silver lining might be that the indicators of congestion impacting economic competitiveness become more and more obvious to everyone, and a big program of transit investment might be sell-able by the next government.
I agree with you. I am a card carrying member, I did not vote for Ford because I knew he wasn't the right person...
(12-20-2018, 11:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-20-2018, 11:01 AM)MidTowner Wrote: [ -> ]This is not the fault of Ontarians. They were signalling strongly for a long time that they were going to elect a PC government this year, and it didn't matter who the leader was. This should be laid at the feet of the party's membership, who chose this leader with that knowledge. Or perhaps the party leadership, which chose a voting method that resulted in the candidate for leadership who received the most votes (Christine Elliott) not being awarded the most "points" and losing the race.

Either way, it is the party's error, and I expect it will be punished for it. Ontario doesn't have a history of giving a party only one term in office before another change, but this will be an exception.

Which means I think this will be an unfortunate setback, but just a setback. Maybe KW will get a few extra trains over the next few years. The more serious issue, travel time, unfortunately won't be ameliorated, but there could be some incremental improvement there, too.

There really is a limit to how much damage can be done in four years. And a silver lining might be that the indicators of congestion impacting economic competitiveness become more and more obvious to everyone, and a big program of transit investment might be sell-able by the next government.

The party leadership was chosen before the general election.  Every person who voted knew they were voting for Ford...with full knowledge of his personality and qualifications.  I don't forgive them that.  There are plenty of other parties to vote for.

In fact, the biggest thing I put on the party right now, is their unwillingness to stand up for their values against their leader.  Christine Elliot included.

This is more than a small setback, this is an absolute minimum 4 year extension to an already way too late project.  The tech industry won't wait around, the damage of the lack of transportation will already be done.  Even if this doesn't serve as a deathblow to transit in general, by serving as a failure, it won't be this area that justifies investment by the time this comes up again.

I have sent in many complaints to the party already.  Some of use members do speak up, please dont label all conservative members or pass judgement without knowledge.  

As far as your doom and gloom about the future of Tech economic development in our area, I have much more faith in the resiliency and entrepreneurial spirit of our people in the region. We have fought back from the industrial decay and become an area that many other cities envy.  Perhaps our success has made us a target by the Ford government to derail some of our success by knowingly reducing the probability of two way GO service. And lets not forget highway 7 to Guelph either.  But, we will still prosper, our success is bigger than Ford. He will learn this, I predict by next year he will come around and accept it.
(12-20-2018, 12:45 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote: [ -> ]
(12-20-2018, 11:07 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]The party leadership was chosen before the general election.  Every person who voted knew they were voting for Ford...with full knowledge of his personality and qualifications.  I don't forgive them that.  There are plenty of other parties to vote for.

In fact, the biggest thing I put on the party right now, is their unwillingness to stand up for their values against their leader.  Christine Elliot included.

This is more than a small setback, this is an absolute minimum 4 year extension to an already way too late project.  The tech industry won't wait around, the damage of the lack of transportation will already be done.  Even if this doesn't serve as a deathblow to transit in general, by serving as a failure, it won't be this area that justifies investment by the time this comes up again.

I have sent in many complaints to the party already.  Some of use members do speak up, please dont label all conservative members or pass judgement without knowledge.  

As far as your doom and gloom about the future of Tech economic development in our area, I have much more faith in the resiliency and entrepreneurial spirit of our people in the region. We have fought back from the industrial decay and become an area that many other cities envy.  Perhaps our success has made us a target by the Ford government to derail some of our success by knowingly reducing the probability of two way GO service. And lets not forget highway 7 to Guelph either.  But, we will still prosper, our success is bigger than Ford. He will learn this, I predict by next year he will come around and accept it.

Yes, fair, and I hope I was clear, I mean people who voted for Ford's government.

And for the party, I was referring to MPPs...I should have clarified...those are the ones who I really disagree with now, as they're the ones with the actual power.

As for our economic situation, I do hope you're right...we will see...
I don't buy at all that this will have a significant impact on the tech scene of the area. Companies are coming here for a whole lot of reasons - all of them way more important (to them) than the transit situation. And its not like Ford is killing something that was going to have an immediate effect. We were talking about something that was happening in like 6 years (at the very earliest!).

I also don't think this is a 4-year delay really. The project has never been of a high enough importance that it was being moved forward. The whole negotiations with CN thing already felt like a bullshit excuse to pretend to do something but not actually have to do anything. Hopefully over the next 4 years it becomes clear that this really is something that we need and it will be resurrected as an actual priority with real solutions provided. And there have to be a whole host of solutions other than a 10-year process of negotiations and building a new line for CN.
(12-20-2018, 01:30 PM)SammyOES Wrote: [ -> ]I don't buy at all that this will have a significant impact on the tech scene of the area.  Companies are coming here for a whole lot of reasons - all of them way more important (to them) than the transit situation.  And its not like Ford is killing something that was going to have an immediate effect.  We were talking about something that was happening in like 6 years (at the very earliest!).

I also don't think this is a 4-year delay really.  The project has never been of a high enough importance that it was being moved forward.  The whole negotiations with CN thing already felt like a bullshit excuse to pretend to do something but not actually have to do anything.  Hopefully over the next 4 years it becomes clear that this really is something that we need and it will be resurrected as an actual priority with real solutions provided.  And there have to be a whole host of solutions other than a 10-year process of negotiations and building a new line for CN.

1) yes tech companies move here for a number of reasons.  The biggest reason is people and the congestion will drive people away.

Obviously how big an impact this will be is an opinion.  I think it will be substantial.  The congestion already has me at my breaking point. 

2) no matter how you feel about the project under the liberals you cannot interpret this as neutral.  This is clearly a setback.

I don't know how anyone can have faith that the current government will do the right thing here . They've proven themselves sprawl happy, even ignoring the political vengeance and austerity issues.
1) Congestion (and all the things that go with that) are not that bad in Waterloo compared to most of the markets we're competing with for tech companies. There's certainly an argument that local companies will have a harder time pulling talent from Toronto w/o much better transit - but that's a tiny percentage of the available talent pool. It's not just an opinion on how big of an impact it will have. There's lot of hard evidence on why companies are moving here (again - to an area that already had congestion / shitty regional transit - and no short/medium term plan to fix that).

2) I agree this is a setback. I just don't think its a 4-year setback. And I don't think the current government will do the right thing. But hopefully the next one will - and hopefully it will have become an important enough issue (with enough public support) that the way they tackle it will be better than a 10-year plan.
(12-20-2018, 05:22 PM)SammyOES Wrote: [ -> ]1) Congestion (and all the things that go with that) are not that bad in Waterloo compared to most of the markets we're competing with for tech companies.  There's certainly an argument that local companies will have a harder time pulling talent from Toronto w/o much better transit - but that's a tiny percentage of the available talent pool.  It's not just an opinion on how big of an impact it will have.  There's lot of hard evidence on why companies are moving here (again - to an area that already had congestion / shitty regional transit - and no short/medium term plan to fix that).

2) I agree this is a setback.  I just don't think its a 4-year setback.  And I don't think the current government will do the right thing.  But hopefully the next one will - and hopefully it will have become an important enough issue (with enough public support) that the way they tackle it will be better than a 10-year plan.

1) Congestion in Waterloo is no problem, I'm from London, you will never hear me complain about congestion in Waterloo Region.  Congestion in Toronto, is intolerable and it essentially cuts KW off from Toronto and the eastern side of the province.  Also, congestion is not going to get better, it's going to get worse, much worse.
Do we know if the feasibility study for the freight rail bypass that was being done was still being conducted, or did the province cancel that too?
(12-20-2018, 05:22 PM)SammyOES Wrote: [ -> ]1) Congestion (and all the things that go with that) are not that bad in Waterloo compared to most of the markets we're competing with for tech companies.  There's certainly an argument that local companies will have a harder time pulling talent from Toronto w/o much better transit - but that's a tiny percentage of the available talent pool.  It's not just an opinion on how big of an impact it will have.  There's lot of hard evidence on why companies are moving here (again - to an area that already had congestion / shitty regional transit - and no short/medium term plan to fix that).

2) I agree this is a setback.  I just don't think its a 4-year setback.  And I don't think the current government will do the right thing.  But hopefully the next one will - and hopefully it will have become an important enough issue (with enough public support) that the way they tackle it will be better than a 10-year plan.

It's certainly true that Waterloo doesn't have significant congestion. But as danbrotherson points out, Waterloo-Toronto congestion is intolerable. Our talent pool is small-to-tiny (I know how many Waterloo SE grads stay in Kitchener-Waterloo, and it's not many) and in any case we need to collaborate with talent in the GTA. There are no good ways to do that now. A problem that can be solved with money and no new technology.