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(01-12-2019, 09:03 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-12-2019, 08:06 AM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]Why so long for the Artic’s to come into service? Order backlog at Nova?

Aren’t there lots of super-crowded routes that could make use of them?

Articulated buses don't fit at the stations we have, I am guessing they didn't want to order them too soon. But yeah, they definitely seem far off, given how crowded our routes are today and how close LRT is to launching.  There could be facility limitations (arent they building a new storage facility too?). That being said I'm happy if crowding continues to force increases in frequency instead of larger vehicles.

As for electric, we have got to at least be planning to get some, this is a five year order.  There are places which plan to have transitioned entirely by then I believe and we won't even have considered ordering one.

They won't have any garages that can fit the 60' lifts until the Northfield Facility is built, which won't be complete until 2021
The original plan for the expansion of the Strausburg garage a few years ago was to add hoists and other equipment for articulated buses, but it got cut for budget reasons. So now we can't have articulated buses until the Northfield garage is built, which should finally have the equipment for them.
(01-12-2019, 11:25 AM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2019, 11:32 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I generally preferred the Nova's, and so did the drivers.

The greater comfort was probably the seating configuration, which I assume is an option on the Novas (plenty of new flyer also had 2 by 2 seating).

I do wonder how ordering NF for a few years has and will for 10 years or so impact our maintenance programs...having to manage two different manufacturers.

Pretty sad that electric buses aren't even on our radar though.

Blame the Ford Government for this. The cancellation of Cap and Trade resulted in the cancellation of the Region's plans for 2 pilot buses and the required infrastructure for the time being. 
Quote:It is noted that in 2018, the Region applied for funding to the provincial Municipal Greenhouse Gas Challenge program for a project which included two pilot electric buses and the required infrastructure to support these buses. While the provincial program did not continue, staff are monitoring the development and evolution of fully electric bus technology. The acceptance of this proposal does not restrict the Region from acquiring electric buses through a subsequent procurement initiative.

While this is true, and I put plenty of blame on Ford, I still also blame the region.  We could and should choose to spend our regional tax dollars on this directly.
(01-11-2019, 09:37 PM)KevinL Wrote: [ -> ]GRT will be ordering up to 122 buses over the next five years, with 27 to be delivered in 2019. This includes plans for up to 9 articulated buses between 2021-23, as well as 6 hybrids for 2023.

The bid for all these was won by Quebec-based Nova Bus, moving our supplier back to them from Manitoba-based New Flyer. Details in the regional agenda. https://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Cou...d200fca357

Excited about the Artics, but too bad it's a few years out.  Just impatient I guess.
(01-11-2019, 11:24 PM)KevinL Wrote: [ -> ]Articulated buses will be on heavy-traffic routes with mostly straight routing, like the 20xes and the 7. We'll see if any other new routes get particularly busy, post Ion launch.

I'm actually really curious to see this play out.  What kind of ripple effect will Ion have.
(01-11-2019, 11:32 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I do wonder how ordering NF for a few years has and will for 10 years or so impact our maintenance programs...having to manage two different manufacturers.

I think GRT (and Kitchener Transit before that) generally has had at least two manufacturers' buses in the fleet most of the time, so I don't think the maintenance should be a major issue. And once the current hybrids are retired, that will simplify maintenance.
(01-12-2019, 11:25 AM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-11-2019, 11:32 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty sad that electric buses aren't even on our radar though.

Blame the Ford Government for this. The cancellation of Cap and Trade resulted in the cancellation of the Region's plans for 2 pilot buses and the required infrastructure for the time being. 

Quote:It is noted that in 2018, the Region applied for funding to the provincial Municipal Greenhouse Gas Challenge program for a project which included two pilot electric buses and the required infrastructure to support these buses. While the provincial program did not continue, staff are monitoring the development and evolution of fully electric bus technology. The acceptance of this proposal does not restrict the Region from acquiring electric buses through a subsequent procurement initiative.

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

EV technology is evolving rapidly, and there will be additional suppliers, increased manufacturing capacity, and likely improved battery technology coming online in the next few years. The current diesel bus order is prudent, in my opinion, and will put GRT in a good position to procure an EV fleet the next time around.
(01-18-2019, 12:34 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-12-2019, 11:25 AM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ]Blame the Ford Government for this. The cancellation of Cap and Trade resulted in the cancellation of the Region's plans for 2 pilot buses and the required infrastructure for the time being. 

The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

EV technology is evolving rapidly, and there will be additional suppliers, increased manufacturing capacity, and likely improved battery technology coming online in the next few years. The current diesel bus order is prudent, in my opinion, and will put GRT in a good position to procure an EV fleet the next time around.

I'm not sure how not investigating EVs at all puts GRT in a better position for procuring EVs in the future, than having EV procurement on the radar would.
(01-18-2019, 12:39 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-18-2019, 12:34 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]The hybrid buses we have now, dating back over ten years, did not live up to expectations.

EV technology is evolving rapidly, and there will be additional suppliers, increased manufacturing capacity, and likely improved battery technology coming online in the next few years. The current diesel bus order is prudent, in my opinion, and will put GRT in a good position to procure an EV fleet the next time around.

I'm not sure how not investigating EVs at all puts GRT in a better position for procuring EVs in the future, than having EV procurement on the radar would.

Well … I think they can investigate, even if they are buying diesel buses (I can investigate cars or bicycles without buying them, too). They can learn from other cities' experience with EV buses. And, yes, they could (have) run a pilot with a few buses even while proceeding with this procurement.

My point is that today is likely till to early to do a wholesale switch to electric. By the time the current order has been completely delivered will likely be a much better time.
Quote:Fullerton also announced that universities and colleges will have to give students the option of what additional fees they pay, such as those that fund campus organizations and clubs. Some will remain mandatory, Fullerton said, including walksafe programs, health and counselling, athletics and recreation and academic support.




Could this end up killing UPass?
Hybrids are simpler than conventional ICE-only vehicles Tom. My hybrid has far fewer things or moving parts to go wrong than a typical car.
(01-18-2019, 01:37 PM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]Hybrids are simpler than conventional ICE-only vehicles Tom. My hybrid has far fewer things or moving parts to go wrong than a typical car.

A typical hybrid vehicle is a parallel one, with both battery-electric and conventional ICE powertrains, so it is arguably more complex. A series hybrid (such as a BMW i3) is simpler, as it only has an electric powertrain, and then a gasoline engine to generate power. (I don't know which type the GRT buses were.) Pure BEV is the simplest, however.

But anyway, my point wasn't about complexity, but about the maturity of the BEV buses (and their manufacturing). BYD is making electric buses, but they have very limited capacity for now, and there are really no other viable manufacturers for the North American market right now, as far as I know. Getting 50 BEV buses would take a long time due to manufacturing constraints, and there isn't effective competition to keep prices down. Batteries are still evolving, and 3-4 years from now there will be far more choices for BEV buses.
You said the fleet maintenance should get simpler when the hybrids retire, implying they added some kind of horrible to deal with complexity that was causing issues.

I’m just saying it’s a myth that hybrids are complex. The transmission in my Prius has a planetary gearset and that’s it. Motor/Generator on the ring and sun, engine to planet carrier. Done. It’s super-simple.
(01-18-2019, 01:05 PM)Spokes Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:Fullerton also announced that universities and colleges will have to give students the option of what additional fees they pay, such as those that fund campus organizations and clubs. Some will remain mandatory, Fullerton said, including walksafe programs, health and counselling, athletics and recreation and academic support.




Could this end up killing UPass?

Came here to ask the same question. It seems like any negotiated group discount like this will probably die if all students are allowed to pick and choose what they pay. it's hard not to imagine that particular legislative decision is more sinister and intended to target various campus  groups PC voters don't like though.
(01-18-2019, 01:52 PM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]You said the fleet maintenance should get simpler when the hybrids retire, implying they added some kind of horrible to deal with complexity that was causing issues.

I’m just saying it’s a myth that hybrids are complex. The transmission in my Prius has a planetary gearset and that’s it. Motor/Generator on the ring and sun, engine to planet carrier. Done. It’s super-simple.

Ah … simpler in the sense that there is one fewer variant to service.