One more for the pile:
"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
-J. Michael Stracznyski
(12-18-2020, 05:11 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2020, 04:48 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: [ -> ]You are likely less likely to be infected in a bar, because they are currently closed. Maybe if people can't wear masks on public transit, public transit should be closed.
Additionally, the for the bars, no one is forced to go into a bar to get to/from work and or appointments, so that is a clear apples vs. oranges comparison.
Coke
The bars are not closed...contrary to popular opinion, there is no lockdown...the restrictions amount to a few hours shorter operation time.
And yes people are not "forced" to go into bars...which is why we should close bars, but not public transit. One is essential, the other is not.
As for people not wearing masks on public transit, I'm not sure what you mean, there are a tiny fraction of people who have a medical reason, but it seems most folks are simply choosing not too.
Bars are limited to 10 guests, which essentially is a lockdown.
I don’t think transit is much of an issue right now, it seems a lot of people are avoiding using it.
(12-23-2020, 01:49 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2020, 05:11 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]The bars are not closed...contrary to popular opinion, there is no lockdown...the restrictions amount to a few hours shorter operation time.
And yes people are not "forced" to go into bars...which is why we should close bars, but not public transit. One is essential, the other is not.
As for people not wearing masks on public transit, I'm not sure what you mean, there are a tiny fraction of people who have a medical reason, but it seems most folks are simply choosing not too.
Bars are limited to 10 guests, which essentially is a lockdown.
I don’t think transit is much of an issue right now, it seems a lot of people are avoiding using it.
I agree transit does not appear to be a major vector of transmission. I don't know any studies or data from here, but from other places, which are more transit dependent, including Asia and places which have detailed contact tracing, it wasn't a major vector. I suspect a combination of good ventilation and low activity/talking on transit vehicles.
That being said, transit numbers are definitely down, but not as much as you'd think, and with some very interesting but entirely expected patterns. According to GRT:
Routes which service places like the University and Colleges which are now doing remote learning are down significantly, around half if I recall.
Routes which are mainly used to service jobs, like factories/stores which are usually used by people who a) cannot work from home and b) usually only use transit if they cannot afford a car, are down only a small amount.
Routes in the core, which service both people who can't afford a car, and bourgeois people like me who could drive but choose to take transit because I live in an area well served by transit have decreased ridership somewhere in between those two extremes.
In general, I think they're still seeing a significant fraction of usage, more than 70%. Certainly a decrease but it's not like the system is empty (as some regional councillors felt).
(01-19-2021, 11:33 AM)Acitta Wrote: [ -> ]Waterloo Region begins phasing out diesel buses this year
I remember it was not more than five or ten years ago that GRT decided to phase out buying hybrid buses because they didn't provide enough lifetime savings. At the time I said it was a poor decision. We could have been five or ten years ahead of the curve.
It is worth noting they are not even talking about the reduced air pollution and reduced noise pollution in this discussion. I mean, on one hand, it's because there are so many other clear benefits and limited space. On the other hand, it is because we think so little about these issues, which is frankly, a travesty, given air pollution and noise pollution have enormous impacts on human health and happiness.
And I'm not even discussing the improvement to ride quality which only affect bus passengers as opposed to everyone in the city.
I am however confused, how do hybrids save 20,000 dollars per year in fuel, when electric buses only save 21,000 dollars a year in fuel?
(01-19-2021, 11:47 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2021, 11:33 AM)Acitta Wrote: [ -> ]Waterloo Region begins phasing out diesel buses this year
I am however confused, how do hybrids save 20,000 dollars per year in fuel, when electric buses only save 21,000 dollars a year in fuel?
The $20,000 is fuel and operating cost savings. The $21,000 is just fuel savings. The lifetime savings are $280,000 for the hybrid and $434,000 for the fully electric.
(01-19-2021, 12:14 PM)Acitta Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2021, 11:47 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I am however confused, how do hybrids save 20,000 dollars per year in fuel, when electric buses only save 21,000 dollars a year in fuel?
The $20,000 is fuel and operating cost savings. The $21,000 is just fuel savings. The lifetime savings are $280,000 for the hybrid and $434,000 for the fully electric.
Thanks, I did misread that.
Although, I wouldn't think hybrids would save much in maintenance costs. Yes, the brakes do get less wear, but there are effectively two drivetrains to maintain, which can't be free.
In any case, their projections about longevity and costs are probably a bit vague anyway, given they were wrong about brake longevity by a factor of two.
(01-19-2021, 12:39 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2021, 12:14 PM)Acitta Wrote: [ -> ]The $20,000 is fuel and operating cost savings. The $21,000 is just fuel savings. The lifetime savings are $280,000 for the hybrid and $434,000 for the fully electric.
Thanks, I did misread that.
Although, I wouldn't think hybrids would save much in maintenance costs. Yes, the brakes do get less wear, but there are effectively two drivetrains to maintain, which can't be free.
In any case, their projections about longevity and costs are probably a bit vague anyway, given they were wrong about brake longevity by a factor of two.
The electrical side has no moving parts, which can be very cheap. The ICE side is used about 50% of what a normal bus would use, so that extends its life and reduces maintenance costs.
Coke
(01-19-2021, 01:10 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2021, 12:39 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, I did misread that.
Although, I wouldn't think hybrids would save much in maintenance costs. Yes, the brakes do get less wear, but there are effectively two drivetrains to maintain, which can't be free.
In any case, their projections about longevity and costs are probably a bit vague anyway, given they were wrong about brake longevity by a factor of two.
The electrical side has no moving parts, which can be very cheap. The ICE side is used about 50% of what a normal bus would use, so that extends its life and reduces maintenance costs.
Coke
I wouldn't say the electrical side has "no" moving parts, there are at a minimum, an electric motor or two, as well as some contactors. There may also be a temperature management system. And there is still a physical interface between the two systems, which can vary in complexity significantly.
To be honest though, I have no idea where most maintenance costs lie with any type of bus. For personal vehicles, usually the drivetrain is not a major source of repairs, and instead auxiliary equipment tend to fail.
(01-19-2021, 01:10 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: [ -> ] (01-19-2021, 12:39 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks, I did misread that.
Although, I wouldn't think hybrids would save much in maintenance costs. Yes, the brakes do get less wear, but there are effectively two drivetrains to maintain, which can't be free.
In any case, their projections about longevity and costs are probably a bit vague anyway, given they were wrong about brake longevity by a factor of two.
The electrical side has no moving parts, which can be very cheap. The ICE side is used about 50% of what a normal bus would use, so that extends its life and reduces maintenance costs.
Coke
Yeah, you know, gas is going to be gone at lot sooner than a lot of people think. It's the way things are going. I was thinking that my next car would be a hybrid, but at the rate we're going, it could very well be full electric.
Maintenance will be a lot different, mostly tires and brakes and whatever other final drive-train that cars share (lock shocks, etc). I have a friend that is a mechanic, his wife had said "he'll always have a job because people will always have cars...hahahahahahhaha". I am thinking how a high quality electric, "regular" car will be. I say regular, because they won't be muscle cars like the Tesla.
Finally. Really looking forward to this. Clean travel.
It looks like they're done road work at the university transit hub. Bus shelter structures are going up on either side of the road.
My phone died from the cold so I wasn't able to get any pictures.
So, bus drivers are still often not wearing a mask while driving. They were exempt from this before due to the fact they have the plexiglass shield. Now, with the emergency order issued a few days ago, do you believe it should be mandatory for GRT drivers to wear masks while they drive the bus?
(01-23-2021, 12:38 PM)ac3r Wrote: [ -> ]So, bus drivers are still often not wearing a mask while driving. They were exempt from this before due to the fact they have the plexiglass shield. Now, with the emergency order issued a few days ago, do you believe it should be mandatory for GRT drivers to wear masks while they drive the bus?
I think transit drivers should have their own separate ventilation so they don’t have to wear a mask. It’s one thing to wear a mask for 30 minutes while riding, quite another to drive an 8-hour shift with one.
That being said, until that happens, they should be masking up.
And the idea that safety measures such as masks and vaccinations are optional for employees who interact with the public is insane. The employer should develop workplace-specific procedures in consultation with public health authorities and their employees (either individually or via their union), and then 100% of employees who continue to be employed should be observed to comply with the procedures.
(01-23-2021, 02:52 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: [ -> ]I think transit drivers should have their own separate ventilation so they don’t have to wear a mask. It’s one thing to wear a mask for 30 minutes while riding, quite another to drive an 8-hour shift with one.
I don't think driving a bus requires any more exertion than many of the factory and warehouse jobs that require wearing of masks.
(01-23-2021, 04:42 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-23-2021, 02:52 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: [ -> ]I think transit drivers should have their own separate ventilation so they don’t have to wear a mask. It’s one thing to wear a mask for 30 minutes while riding, quite another to drive an 8-hour shift with one.
I don't think driving a bus requires any more exertion than many of the factory and warehouse jobs that require wearing of masks.
And probably considerably less than healthcare workers who are working a highly active job.