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(05-28-2021, 12:21 PM)ac3r Wrote: [ -> ]Some banks still use ancient operating systems like OS/2, so I can't imagine what sort of servers the government has running in musty old datacentres.

There would likely be a lot of z/OS on IBM mainframe hardware. But that doesn't prevent modern connectivity as such.
(05-27-2021, 02:31 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, getting people onto transit early makes sense as well. But there's also a risk of it appearing to be the stop gap you use until you can get a car.

Regardless, I'm totally in agreement that the proposed system is pretty poor.  The biggest problem remains the fact that driving is massively subsidized...you are unlikely to be able to beat the driving subsidy just by making transit cheaper. If we mandated that parking cost money for example, the travelwise subsidy would be less important.

It can be a stop-gap for people, but if it makes them comfortable for using it, they'll use it again. I used Kitchener Transit all through high school (that just aged me), then again for my first FT job, when I worked for the Feds, and the bus dropped me off right in front of my house. Then again when the wife and I shared a car. She'd drop me off at work, go to her work after I was done, then pick her up later on (we had a 4 hour separation of work hours, and I couldn't take the bus as it doesn't run before 6 am).

If you start cutting people off of transit due to costs (no how petty the leaders think it is), people start looking at the pro-vs-cons of costs vs convenience, then you lose that ridership.

I can't help to think that our "leaders" are pre-occupied with costs of the GRT, and they have changed some routes, reducing services, like Sunday service, earlier and later service, and cutting route length. 5 years ago, I could have taken the bus to work, and back home, every day, all within a couple hundred meters of my house (actually, more like 20 meters..but). Now at best, I can walk almost a KM, and with my shifts, I can only use the bus for 6 out of 20 shifts.

I'm not going to lie. I love having a car, I love the convenience, how fast it is to get where you need to go, etc. Apart from my family, especially my daughter who cannot use the bus services due to PTSD (bad shit happened on the transit), I couldn't use the bus anyway, if I wanted to. And they keep making changes, and as far as I can see, these are not improvements, it's either cost saving measures, or increased rates, in this case.
(05-28-2021, 09:09 AM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-27-2021, 05:14 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: [ -> ]Why is access to income data a challenge? Anyone applying for ATP who isn't receiving OW/ODSP is required to submit extensive verification of their household income on an annual basis, including CRA assessments, bank statements, and pay stubs.

Yes, you can ask people to bring in paperwork and have someone go through it and validate it. It will take time, for both the passenger and the staff, and it's no fun for the passenger and it costs money for the region.

Ideally, the GRT staff would scan in an ID card or enter a SIN, and the GRT system would make a request to the CRA system for the family income, and then determine the discount level. The staff member would never see any personal documents or income information, the system would just indicate that this person qualifies for a 40% discount, for example -- and that would automatically be tied to the person's pass or EasyGo card.

Here is the catch: The region is looking for "household income". Revenue Canada can only give "Family Income".

Here is the difference: Suppose I have an 19 year old finishing out high school or simply look for his first real job, but still not earning much (saying under $10,000), and I am taking care of an aging parent (this is more factual in my case). The CRA see's 3 families here, me, my son, my mother. We all get separate benefits (if we qualify) based on our NOA and living arrangements (who's paying property taxes, for example).

Region is looking for household income, that is, combined income of 3 different families, in this case.

Another example: suppose a single mother taking care of a young child (say 7 years old), and two teenagers. She works PT earning $25/hour (so a decent job) for 24 hours a week. That's $31,200. Both her teens have summer jobs, with reduced hours during school year, each earning $4,500/year. That takes the household income up to $40,700, and doesn't qualify them for reduced ticket prices, since they are rich.

Again, with the above case, the CRA doesn't hold the kids income against her as 'family income'. Her benefits, like the GST, Trillium, and CCB, is based on her income only. Yet, the region would count the kids income as household income.

It's petty and disgusting. And it leaves family with zero dignity. And by that, I mean families that actually qualify, have to bring all this proof of poverty to the region. In this day and age, you'd expect better.

I really hope someone from the region is reading this, like Redman, because you guys are creepy as hell. Bunch of dingbats running the system over there.

Oh, folks, btw, if you work for the region and you're on the Sunshine List, guess what! You GET A DISCOUNT! Yep, this is what this region has become. What a disgrace. Man...I am so livid.
(05-28-2021, 02:52 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ]I can't help to think that our "leaders" are pre-occupied with costs of the GRT, and they have changed some routes, reducing services, like Sunday service, earlier and later service, and cutting route length.

In general, municipal and regional governments are preoccupied with keeping property tax increases as small as possible. As a result, you can't increase spending much in any given area, unless you are going to cut somewhere else.

The way to solve this would be to rework the funding of municipal governments, but I don't see this as being very likely, at least not in the near to medium term.
(05-28-2021, 03:26 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the catch: The region is looking for "household income". Revenue Canada can only give "Family Income".

(...)

Another example: suppose a single mother taking care of a young child (say 7 years old), and two teenagers. She works PT earning $25/hour (so a decent job) for 24 hours a week. That's $31,200. Both her teens have summer jobs, with reduced hours during school year, each earning $4,500/year. That takes the household income up to $40,700, and doesn't qualify them for reduced ticket prices, since they are rich.

Again, with the above case, the CRA doesn't hold the kids income against her as 'family income'. Her benefits, like the GST, Trillium, and CCB, is based on her income only. Yet, the region would count the kids income as household income.

It's petty and disgusting. And it leaves family with zero dignity. And by that, I mean families that actually qualify, have to bring all this proof of poverty to the region. In this day and age, you'd expect better.

I don't think anyone is saying that $40K is rich. But it's above the cutoff, and if this is intended to support low-income families, there needs to be a cutoff somewhere. Same scenario would potentially apply whether the cutoff was $30K, $40K or $50K. And family/household income still does make more sense as a criterion than individual income. (They could have used the CRA definition but then the cutoff point might have needed to be lower in order to keep the expected costs same.)

Now, arguably a graduated reduction in discount would have been better, but that's a different argument.

In terms of dignity, an automated check would surely be better than having to show the GRT staff your pay stubs. At least in my opinion.
(05-28-2021, 04:15 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2021, 02:52 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ]I can't help to think that our "leaders" are pre-occupied with costs of the GRT, and they have changed some routes, reducing services, like Sunday service, earlier and later service, and cutting route length.

In general, municipal and regional governments are preoccupied with keeping property tax increases as small as possible. As a result, you can't increase spending much in any given area, unless you are going to cut somewhere else.

The way to solve this would be to rework the funding of municipal governments, but I don't see this as being very likely, at least not in the near to medium term.

No, they really aren't. If they were pre-occupied with that they would be taking their engineering staff to task about the immense waste in our roads. They are only concerned about CERTAIN spending. And frankly, I'm furious about it.
(05-28-2021, 05:56 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2021, 04:15 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]In general, municipal and regional governments are preoccupied with keeping property tax increases as small as possible. As a result, you can't increase spending much in any given area, unless you are going to cut somewhere else.

The way to solve this would be to rework the funding of municipal governments, but I don't see this as being very likely, at least not in the near to medium term.

No, they really aren't. If they were pre-occupied with that they would be taking their engineering staff to task about the immense waste in our roads. They are only concerned about CERTAIN spending. And frankly, I'm furious about it.

And I know you know this, but it bears repeating: a lot of the waste isn’t just waste to people who agree that we should be making it easier to use non-car modes of transportation: it’s waste even from the point of view of “cars must be provided roads”. Four lane roads with two lane traffic on them, lanes that are just much wider than they need to be even for transport trucks, etc.
(05-28-2021, 03:26 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2021, 09:09 AM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, you can ask people to bring in paperwork and have someone go through it and validate it. It will take time, for both the passenger and the staff, and it's no fun for the passenger and it costs money for the region.

Ideally, the GRT staff would scan in an ID card or enter a SIN, and the GRT system would make a request to the CRA system for the family income, and then determine the discount level. The staff member would never see any personal documents or income information, the system would just indicate that this person qualifies for a 40% discount, for example -- and that would automatically be tied to the person's pass or EasyGo card.

Here is the catch: The region is looking for "household income". Revenue Canada can only give "Family Income".

Well, maybe the Region should be using the CRA’s definition. Who has put more thought into a fair way of assessing a person’s resources?
(05-28-2021, 06:03 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-28-2021, 03:26 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ]Here is the catch: The region is looking for "household income". Revenue Canada can only give "Family Income".

Well, maybe the Region should be using the CRA’s definition. Who has put more thought into a fair way of assessing a person’s resources?

"Not invented here syndrome" is not just for tech companies.
(05-28-2021, 04:44 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think anyone is saying that $40K is rich. But it's above the cutoff, and if this is intended to support low-income families, there needs to be a cutoff somewhere. Same scenario would potentially apply whether the cutoff was $30K, $40K or $50K. And family/household income still does make more sense as a criterion than individual income. (They could have used the CRA definition but then the cutoff point might have needed to be lower in order to keep the expected costs same.)

Now, arguably a graduated reduction in discount would have been better, but that's a different argument.

In terms of dignity, an automated check would surely be better than having to show the GRT staff your pay stubs. At least in my opinion.

But the *Region* is saying you're rich if you're a family of 4 earning 40K.

As for transit support, it SHOULD be based on the CRA's definition, not their stupid made up definition. Who's the idiot that put that together? Hell, even OW and ODSP separates families living in the same household. You're 18, you are your own family now.

And to be frank, if they are THAT concerned about cutting costs, they can go f-themselves and stop giving those on the Sunshine list a discount! Why do those folks deserve a discount? That makes zero sense. In this region: you're living in poverty, but hey, we think you're rich (You're richer than you think®.) Meanwhile, if you're on the Sunshine list, you poor (literally) bastard, here's your discount, enjoy. Ass. Backwards. That is what it is.

And again, there is no way to do an automated check, not without consent and spreading your entire families SIN's to a group of strangers. SIN's only go to the CRA, your employer, your bank, and OW/ODSP. No one else, ever. Sorry, just not a good suggestion. I don't trust anyone else with my SIN, let alone clown organizations like the GRT & RoW. They really can't be trusted, at all.

I am sure people remember what KISS stands for: Keep it simple, silly (or stupid, as some say). Simple is: Your age is 65 or older, you get reduced rates. And a real reduced rate, $50. Wham. BAM! You're a high school student? $50. BOOM!

Another thing to consider: the low income cut-off in Ontario is $38,500 for a SINGLE PERSON. That's according to Doug Ford. He says it closer to $68,000 for a family. Nearly double according to the brainiacs in the region.

The "so-called poverty line for Canada" was roughly $37,500 (for a family of 4) in 2015. We're not even hitting that with this and in 6 years, prices have soared for everything.

All I am saying is the region is being petty, they broke a system that wasn't great and all that helpful to begin with, and they somehow made in substantially worse. And in the end, it might save them few thousand -- enough to ensure that the highest paid staff, councillors and regional chair get their raise without affecting the tax rate - and their own discounted transit pass (which is ridiculous).

Sorry...I still can't get over how they continue to give themselves a discount, that's why I keep brining it up. And I can't get over how low the cut-off is. At the very least, follow the rules of the CRA, or look at what the PC's did for Ontario regarding income tax. Follow one of those. It's like the intentionally made this to be a cash grab.
(05-28-2021, 06:18 PM)jeffster Wrote: [ -> ]But the *Region* is saying you're rich if you're a family of 4 earning 40K.

Well, they’re saying one is not poor, which isn’t the same thing as rich.

But it’s still wrong. One person earning $40k might not be poor (with some careful budgeting and choices) but I can’t imagine housing and feeding a family of 4 on that.

Quote:As for transit support, it SHOULD be based on the CRA's definition, not their stupid made up definition. Who's the idiot that put that together? Hell, even OW and ODSP separates families living in the same household. You're 18, you are your own family now.

And to be frank, if they are THAT concerned about cutting costs, they can go f-themselves and stop giving those on the Sunshine list a discount! Why do those folks deserve a discount? That makes zero sense. In this region: you're living in poverty, but hey, we think you're rich (You're richer than you think®.) Meanwhile, if you're on the Sunshine list, you poor (literally) bastard, here's your discount, enjoy. Ass. Backwards. That is what it is.

Just to be clear, I assume it is that people who work for the Region or other employers, including the University of Waterloo, can get a pass by payroll deduction, at a discount? And some of those people are on the Sunshine list which no longer makes one wealthy by any stretch but certainly puts one in the upper fraction of earners. So it’s not literally giving people who are on the Sunshine list a discount because they’re on the list.

But yeah, no real disagreement with what you said. Just have to get in my pedantry for the day.
The small building that was used for Grand River Transit employees on the Highland Hills Mall/Superstore property is finally being demolished. Fencing is around the building and a sign saying Sittler Demolition is on the fence. There is also equipment on the site.
Is the new UW terminal set to open soon? Haven't been past lately, but I have to presume it's ready.
I keep going past UW and see little to no progress being made.
I was sure it would open this week for the fall term. Alas...