(08-14-2016, 09:32 AM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2016, 09:19 AM)KevinL Wrote: [ -> ]Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.
Ok - but what about the general public? Â Why are these folks bringing this up now, then, and not 5 years ago during the public consultation meetings? Â Did they attend them? Â Did they submit their comments or concerns? Â Or did they just not care, and are now kicking up a stink?
It's P3 - nothing can be done now without huge costs or delays to the project. Â Have to wait until it's done and handed over - then the Region might be able to do something.
Five years ago the detailed designs didn’t exist. How were people to know that existing paths were slated to be eliminated? A similar comment applies to many details, such as the utterly unnecessary fences in Waterloo Park. Some opponents of the project complained about it because of the huge fences that would supposedly be needed; supporters did not, to my knowledge, argue that the fences were OK but rather that they weren’t needed. In fact we are getting unnecessarily large fences without any public debate based upon them.
I personally still support the project even with the bad handling of the park, but I don’t think it’s fair to criticize people for not raising every issue years ago at a meeting which didn’t even get to that level of detail. Instead, the technical people associated with the project who actually have knowledge and responsibility for the details should have raised access as an issue and made sure that it was handled appropriately.
We don’t want to get in a situation where supporters of the project implicitly support every decision taken by those in charge, and opponents reflexively oppose every action — every road closure, sign, vehicle choice, and so on. Instead, I am absolutely in favour of the project as a whole, but I think that many many details have been flubbed due to low creativity and an unwillingness to really engage with suggestions from the public. In some cases, as with, apparently, the fences in the park, the fault lies outside of Waterloo Region, of course.
(08-14-2016, 10:45 AM)KevinL Wrote: [ -> ]Simply throwing up our hands and saying 'what's done is done' is not going to help these residents; they deserve a voice, even if it's later than it should have been.
I don't think anyone is proposing to ignore this, but I agree that this should be done outside of the LRT contract.
...which means waiting until next year, as I've said - project completion. At any rate, Tom Galloway is bringing it up on Monday, to find out how it all happened.
Another LRT morning walk, this time heading "west."
The steel frame is up for the Victoria Park station wall:
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A view of the EB embedded track with 1 Victoria in the background:
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Victoria St construction, not much to see here yet, but the Pharmacy building looks lovely:
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Rails awaiting deployment on King St, between Victoria and Water:
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Duke St construction, looking toward City Centre condos:
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(08-14-2016, 01:22 PM)tomh009 Wrote: [ -> ]Rails awaiting deployment on King St, between Victoria and Water:
Literally! Â
That shot of the School of Pharmacy is particularly gorgeous!
Definitely! I hope they are doing some drainage work on this section yet.
Thanks for the kudos, Iain!
(08-14-2016, 11:58 AM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]...which means waiting until next year, as I've said - project completion. At any rate, Tom Galloway is bringing it up on Monday, to find out how it all happened.
After project completion but before start of operations should be workable. I hope something gets figured out.
It has been over 1 year now, (July 29th actually), since I'm assuming that Borden from Courtland to the Huron Spur received it's first layer? of asphalt.
I wonder when they will put down the second?
(08-14-2016, 09:32 AM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ] (08-14-2016, 09:19 AM)KevinL Wrote: [ -> ]Even if it is too late to be folded into the project agreement, it does bring the issue to light for the politicians in charge. They failed to account for this need when drawing up the plans, and a good portion of their constituency is unhappy. How they act on that, I can't say, but making them aware is a vital part of the process.
Ok - but what about the general public? Â Why are these folks bringing this up now, then, and not 5 years ago during the public consultation meetings? Â Did they attend them? Â Did they submit their comments or concerns? Â Or did they just not care, and are now kicking up a stink?
It's P3 - nothing can be done now without huge costs or delays to the project. Â Have to wait until it's done and handed over - then the Region might be able to do something.
It shouldn't be up to the public to have to list every detail that should be put into the project. Â That's what Regional Staff are for. Â The Public Consultation Centres were for catching minor issues. Â Added to this, there was probably a certain amount of Public Consultation Centre fatigue that kicked in given the protracted nature of the consultation process.
(08-14-2016, 11:10 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: [ -> ]We don’t want to get in a situation where supporters of the project implicitly support every decision taken by those in charge, and opponents reflexively oppose every action — every road closure, sign, vehicle choice, and so on. Instead, I am absolutely in favour of the project as a whole, but I think that many many details have been flubbed due to low creativity and an unwillingness to really engage with suggestions from the public. In some cases, as with, apparently, the fences in the park, the fault lies outside of Waterloo Region, of course.
(08-14-2016, 11:58 AM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]...which means waiting until next year, as I've said - project completion. At any rate, Tom Galloway is bringing it up on Monday, to find out how it all happened.
But then after Project Completion and Delivery, all future work is covered by the Operating Agreement.  As well, were we not told from the outset that the whole reason for a P3 and a private operator was because the Region didn't have the expertise to carry out this kind of project?  Unfortunately, the private operator can only work with whatever specifications Regional staff and politicians give them.
On a related note, does anyone know what kind of traffic (pedestrian, cyclist, car) patterns were observed prior to the project construction.  Was any thought given to existing routes across the corridor and how they might be affected after the LRT is in place?  I seem to recall that quite a bit was discussed about car traffic patterns and needs, but I can't recall seeing anything about pedestrians or cyclists.  That's not to say it wasn't done, I just don't know if it exists.
I expect no one studied pedestrian volumes here because officially there are none. Officially the trail has no access to Fairway between Courtland and Wilson. The only accesses that did exist were cut in a fence or were because the property owner chose not to put up fences.
Not that that means there shouldn't be an access, there definitely should IMO, but it explains why it's easy to miss in the process. Studying it would acknowledge it exists, and could cause the region to be required to do something about it (like prevent it).
(08-15-2016, 12:48 PM)taylortbb Wrote: [ -> ]I expect no one studied pedestrian volumes here because officially there are none. Officially the trail has no access to Fairway between Courtland and Wilson. The only accesses that did exist were cut in a fence or were because the property owner chose not to put up fences.
Not that that means there shouldn't be an access, there definitely should IMO, but it explains why it's easy to miss in the process. Studying it would acknowledge it exists, and could cause the region to be required to do something about it (like prevent it).
That's almost exactly what I was just typing up before accidentally closing the wrong tab... argh!
This is the whole crux of it. Had there been an official crossing beforehand, it might have been caught.
My fear with this whole thing blowing up right now is that blame is going to be (very unfairly) placed on GrandLinq, who, in my mind, have done no wrong. How can a project engineer in Toronto be expected to catch that there is a trodden path of broken bushes and fences and just add in an (expensive) crossing system with lights and deck plates for free? Bringing up the issue in 2014 (
date here) is too late. Shovels were in the ground. This should have been caught or brought up by
someone way back in the 2010-2012 timeframe.
As I suspected, Transport Canada may be the bottleneck here, now - as confirmed by
Tom Galloway. We should know some more in the coming days. But please keep in mind that as a P3, the consortium has been contracted/hired to build a system to a spec - and changing the spec right now, today, means that the consortium has the opportunity to quote whatever they want for additional charges and add whatever they like to the timeline - and the Region sure as heck ain't gonna let that happen. The only way a crossing will go in here is if it is spliced in well
after the substantial completion date is met.
It is an unfortunate situation. Don't get me wrong. But this slipped by
everybody until it was too late. Let's not finger point.
(08-15-2016, 01:24 AM)Square Wrote: [ -> ]It has been over 1 year now, (July 29th actually), since I'm assuming that Borden from Courtland to the Huron Spur received it's first layer? of asphalt.
I wonder when they will put down the second?
I think I got my own answer. Â Went to St. Mary's Hospital today and saw that only 1 layer has been paved on Queens Boulevard.
I think this area was constructed and paved like 2 years ago.
(08-15-2016, 06:55 PM)Square Wrote: [ -> ] (08-15-2016, 01:24 AM)Square Wrote: [ -> ]It has been over 1 year now, (July 29th actually), since I'm assuming that Borden from Courtland to the Huron Spur received it's first layer? of asphalt.
I wonder when they will put down the second?
I think I got my own answer. Â Went to St. Mary's Hospital today and saw that only 1 layer has been paved on Queens Boulevard.
I think this area was constructed and paved like 2 years ago.
That’s nothing. After Father David Bauer Drive was constructed through to Westmount in 1997, it didn’t get its second layer until approximately the mid-2000s. Not sure what happened there… but I don’t expect a lot of that sort of thing with the LRT project. I imagine Grandlinq is going to want to actually finish the construction phase, and they’re not subject to yearly budget cycles — they have a contract to build a certain project and they’ll build it.
Often they only pave one layer, and then leave the second one to wait until the construction is substantially completed -- that may well have been what happened of FDB Drive.