Waterloo Region Connected

Full Version: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012
Didn't we have this exact discussion several years ago?

Elmira is not Waterloo Region's Scarborough.
(08-28-2016, 09:37 PM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]Didn't we have this exact discussion several years ago?

Elmira is not Waterloo Region's Scarborough.
Right. That's Cambridge.

I'M KIDDING.
(08-26-2016, 03:35 PM)Markster Wrote: [ -> ]To no one's surprise, the railway bridge at Waterloo Park is already attracting art:





The sooner they commission something to cover up the concrete the better!

We need those no paint station panels here  Undecided
(08-27-2016, 03:31 PM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]This, unfortunately, is what the entrance to the R+T Park station is now going to look like.  I think it's absolutely terrible.  Those fences have got to go, and look like garbage. C'mon![/i]

Unfortunately, this station looks more approachable from Phillip Street than it does from the R&T Park.
(08-28-2016, 07:19 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-28-2016, 03:36 PM)Elmira Guy Wrote: [ -> ]Charging fees to the townships for services they do not benefit from is absurd.

I am an unswerving supporter of LRT but I don't think people should have to pay for something when there community is not serviced by it.


I don't have kids so  I want a discount on my school board taxes. I don't drive a car, so I don't want to pay road taxes. I don't get sick, so I want a discount on my medicare taxes. I never go to the townships, so I want to make sure that none of my tax money goes to them ever since I don't use their facilities.... I also want them to pay for the department of agriculture, which I never use either.

You get the picture, taxes do not work on a per use basis. We pool revenues on to the city/regional/provincial/federal pot and we entrust them to spend in the ways that society benefits the most from that money. Me?  I'm pretty happy some of my tax monies are going up north to improve the quality of drinking water in isolated communities.

And this is why the ultimate answer to this kind of question is always a political one. Because when you put your cases like that, you're both right, but you both can't be right. Which argument seems more right depends on where your audience's interests lie.


Look at Hamilton, which doesn't just differentiate between rural and urban areas when taxing for transit, but divides it up by ward. The result becomes a severe obstinance against expanding transit into areas that don't pay for it, because of this level of micro-targeting. Which means that Hamilton has yet one more pressure that forces people to drive. That results in an artificial easiness in growing the road network compared to providing any alternative. So, area rating for transit is bad.

But conversely, it doesn't make sense to most people to tax a small town outside of the KCW metro area to fund transit that doesn't serve it. And transit service out to places like Elmira and other towns has been funded on a per-route basis. (And still faces opposition on that account too.) So, area rating for transit makes sense, I guess?

It might be a different conversation if people understood that a new subdivision in Wilmot, for example, is housing a few hundred people who are primarily driving into KW to work and to shop, and this places pressure on our connecting regional roads, as well as the need for street capacity and parking room in the city. If that subdivision was a denser development in an urban area connected by good transit, the pressure on roads around and in KW would be reduced. So there's an argument that in lieu of paying for transit, there should be an additional road transportation levy.

Or maybe we should stop talking about paying for one type of transportation here, and one type there, we should talk about paying for any transportation across this region as a whole.

But we're not, because politics.
(08-28-2016, 11:18 PM)timc Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, this station looks more approachable from Phillip Street than it does from the R&T Park.

...which isn't hard to imagine.  The access from Philip was an afterthought by the Region, and they purchased a sliver of land to be able to do so.  Meanwhile, the "stock" entrance off of Wes Graham Way/the Laurel Trail is done by the Consortium, who, unless specified otherwise, will have no impetus to do anything beyond the bare minimum as far as effort goes - and why would they?  To be perfectly clear, I am not faulting anyone over this:  I just want attention brought to it, so it can be cleaned up.

Here are a couple more photos of the area.

[attachment=2120]

[attachment=2121]

[attachment=2122]

Maybe it'll look great with a nice curving concrete path, and a bunch of trees/bushes hiding the fence?  Right now though it just screams "Welcome to Prison Camp".  Not very inviting at all. "HOSTILE TO PEDESTRIANS!!!!", even! :: horrors ::

I'll dig and see if I can find out any more info.
Quote:From the article: Larry Masseo is on the board of directors for the Waterloo Region Home Builders’ Association: “I suppose I would look at it as a broader perspective. You could say that you don’t use parks, or I don’t use schools, why should I pay?” he said.“It is half my taxes right there. I think from a broader policy perspective, if the transit cost is spread out over everybody, everyone in the township still has access to use that transit should they need to, whether they are visiting the city, or one of the many who live in the townships, and work in the city, so it will impact them from that perspective.”

According to the article, it isn't new taxes that are being considered but rather boosting the development charge for new construction.  It may be the thin edge of the wedge towards an amalgamated transit/transportation fee that is Region wide (along the lines of the same way that everyone in the Region pays for policing or the airport).

Conveniently, charging development charges allows politicians to have their cake and eat it too.  No, the existing taxpayers of the Townships (assuming that they don't move into a new build), will not be paying for the LRT; but Yes, the Townships will be paying for the LRT in an indirect way.

The transit discussion is far from over as the concept of funding transit out to outlying areas.  Maybe, once the LRT is running, and once the Region has rationalized the existing KWC GRT bus routes, then the Region can begin to look in earnest at connections to the outlying areas.  I'm sure that a two-way St. Jacobs Market-Heidelberg-St. Clements-Hawkesville-Wallenstein-Elmira-St. Jacobs loop would be quite welcome for people living in Wellesley and Woolwich.
(08-29-2016, 01:09 PM)nms Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:From the article: Larry Masseo is on the board of directors for the Waterloo Region Home Builders’ Association: “I suppose I would look at it as a broader perspective. You could say that you don’t use parks, or I don’t use schools, why should I pay?” he said.“It is half my taxes right there. I think from a broader policy perspective, if the transit cost is spread out over everybody, everyone in the township still has access to use that transit should they need to, whether they are visiting the city, or one of the many who live in the townships, and work in the city, so it will impact them from that perspective.”

According to the article, it isn't new taxes that are being considered but rather boosting the development charge for new construction.  It may be the thin edge of the wedge towards an amalgamated transit/transportation fee that is Region wide (along the lines of the same way that everyone in the Region pays for policing or the airport).

With "half my taxes", Masseo is referring to parks and schools (which he doesn't use), not transit.

That said, given that one of the leaders of the local home builders' association doesn't see a major problem with the idea of the incremental development fee to support transit, maybe this would not be such a huge crisis as the Observer paints.
Hey, so I was on the radio last week!

If you missed it, and want to listen, I posted my part (as well as a Tom Galloway bit from earlier spliced in) to YouTube. It also features a bunch of supporting imagery.

(08-29-2016, 05:00 PM)Markster Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, so I was on the radio last week!

If you missed it, and want to listen, I posted my part (as well as a Tom Galloway bit from earlier spliced in) to YouTube.  It also features a bunch of supporting imagery.

Finally got to listen through your interview, it was a really good interview, you definitely seemed to get your point across.

I did find a few things interesting, regarding my own pet peeve on this particular issue, which is in my opinion, the *real* problem is that the area was never designed to be walkable.

I think Tom Galloway touched on this when he said there weren't formal paths.  And you kind of implied it when you said it was surprisingly walkable.

If the paths had been formal paths from the beginning, then crossings would have probably been included in the design.  But since walkability i.e., the concept of walking from the neighbourhood to the businesses was never built for (I imagine, never even considered), these paths don't exist.  The fact that the hydro corridor with the recreational trail and few/no/with holes fences prevented it, merely meant that walkability was a happy accident for residents.

This might be a problem affecting Traynor right now, but the general problem affects many neighbourhoods like Traynor across the region.  Specifically, even places that could be walkable, aren't.  Designs seem to, and indeed do, go out of its way to prevent walkability.
The crossing at Father David Bauer has been covered in a layer of a fine aggregate, making it much easier to ride across. The frame for the wall was in place at R&T Park, and they were hoisting in the uprights this morning.
You mean the completed crossing at FDB/Caroline is now covered in gravel? Why?
Not much progress to report on Charles this morning (although the work crews, absent yesterday morning, were back).

So I'll have to settle for a dawn picture of the tracks near Borden:
[attachment=2123]
@ BuildingScout

So if you believe that residents of the townships should be subject to all the same fees as urban residents but should not expect or receive the same services for said fees, how far does this extend in your mind? Do you also support the removal of waste transfer stations from the townships, telling residents you must now drive into the city to get rid of yard waste and such? If you think they're all going to do so, they ain't.

And your argument that my point about residents having tp pay for transit while not receiving (and won't in my lifetime) is akin to someone saying I shouldn't have to pay taxes towards education because I don't have kids is not quite analogous. I think the dynamics change somewhat when switching from the microeconomics of one to that of a whole community. I cannot think of any service that residents of the townships receive from the region that urban residents do not, yet the reverse is true in the two issues being discussed here.
Unless of course you think issues facing residents of the township should be considered less important than those facing urban residents. Not saying you are but it would not be the first time I (and I'm certain others who grew up or spent a lot of time living in the townships) I have encountered that sentiment.
Some progress to report in uptown:
At Erb and Caroline staking for the outer curb is in place on the south west corner. Also, pieces of track were being moved around closer to their final resting spots.

At King and Allen the short stretch on the southbound track between the Allen curve and the Allen station is now poured.

Track is now welded and mostly booted, but still on wooden blocks, all the way to William (previously ended at George).

Also, a lot of the advertising on the orange construction fence was coming down; not sure if that is a precursor to the fence moving or coming down - would seem early for that.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012