An important note from tonight's Regional Council meeting: Bombardier is not delaying the delivery of the vehicles. The Region is. That is to allow any changes Bombardier makes to vehicles that are newer in terms of production date to also be made to previously produced vehicles that are still there. 504 is coming by the end of November and 503 by the end of December, after any changes made to 504 that weren't made to 503 are then made to 503. If that makes any sense.
Semantics, these changes from the region would have been made months ago if Bombardier had delivered something working on time.
So 504 is the final design then? How are they going to handle this with 501/502? I can see them shipping 501 back but 502?
(11-01-2017, 08:50 PM)JoeKW Wrote: [ -> ]Semantics, these changes from the region would have been made months ago if Bombardier had delivered something working on time.
Not really. Many of the changes are changes in manufacturing process. others are changes in things like wire organization or better fasteners minor things you wouldn't ever think of when designing the vehicle initially but would improve the quality of life for maintenance workers or make the vehicles require fewer minor repairs because of an inferior fastener. These types of changes only get made after testing the vehicles for extended periods of time. Something Bombardier couldn't do because Metrolinx wouldn't sign on any of the paperwork for the 2 pilots for the longest time.
(11-01-2017, 08:52 PM)bgb_ca Wrote: [ -> ]So 504 is the final design then? How are they going to handle this with 501/502? I can see them shipping 501 back but 502?
Designs are rarely "final". Tweaks are often made to "final" designs to make manufacturing go smoother, make maintenance easier, make things last longer, etc. Most of the tweaks are things that the average person would never see. The majority of tweaks to the design are usually made within the first 50-100 production models manufactured.
(11-01-2017, 09:06 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-01-2017, 08:52 PM)bgb_ca Wrote: [ -> ]So 504 is the final design then? How are they going to handle this with 501/502? I can see them shipping 501 back but 502?
Designs are rarely "final". Tweaks are often made to "final" designs to make manufacturing go smoother, make maintenance easier, make things last longer, etc. Most of the tweaks are things that the average person would never see. The majority of tweaks to the design are usually made within the first 50-100 production models manufactured.
Similarly, the 100th Boeing 787 is a far, far better airplane than the 10th one off the line. Boeing had to do extra-heavy discounting in order to find buyers for the "terrible teens", before the 20th plane.
(11-01-2017, 06:52 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ]This is what everyone wants to see  
I wouldn't mind actually *hearing* it too, instead of musak.
Me too; I've requested the B-Roll. If I get it, I'll post it.
A surprise during 'substantial completion' - the platform at Frederick is wrapped in tarps. Not sure what's going on within.
![[Image: 1qzb.jpg]](http://thinimg.com/img/1qzb.jpg)
(11-02-2017, 12:50 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2017, 11:51 AM)Bob_McBob Wrote: [ -> ]CTV on the story: "yet another setback", and a nice spot of coverage for the Preston anti-LRT crazies.
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId...tPageNum=1
CTV trying to spin the region's decision to delay delivery as Bombardier's fault.Â
I hear this argument, but I'm honestly not willing to let Bombardier completely off the hook on this one. Yes, the Region "asked" for this delay. However, the root of the issue is there likely were manufacturing/process issues that have since been ironed out and of course the Region wants those fixes included in the units sitting at Millhaven, even if those units could technically be sent here now and still function.Â
I guess my negative sentiment against Bombardier boils down to the fact that it was Bombardier's lateness generally (and having to set up a line at Millhaven in a hurry) that likely contributed to this entire situation. I accept that the Region made the call, but I think there's more to it than that.
(11-02-2017, 12:50 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2017, 11:51 AM)Bob_McBob Wrote: [ -> ]CTV on the story: "yet another setback", and a nice spot of coverage for the Preston anti-LRT crazies.
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId...tPageNum=1
CTV trying to spin the region's decision to delay delivery as Bombardier's fault.Â
I'd say it is Bombardier's fault. It's not like the region delayed the vehicles because the region isn't ready for them (unlike say Metrolinx, which does appear to share in the fault). If the region could get fully functional complete vehicles delivered they would have taken them a year ago. The problem is Bombardier wanted to ship vehicles that still needed more work, and the region told Bombardier to get them done before shipping them, and that the region doesn't want to be storage space for incomplete vehicles. I'm pretty sure the original contract for vehicle delivery specified 14 complete vehicles last year, not 14 vehicles that still needed more work.
(11-02-2017, 01:22 PM)taylortbb Wrote: [ -> ] (11-02-2017, 12:50 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: [ -> ]CTV trying to spin the region's decision to delay delivery as Bombardier's fault.Â
I'd say it is Bombardier's fault. It's not like the region delayed the vehicles because the region isn't ready for them (unlike say Metrolinx, which does appear to share in the fault). If the region could get fully functional complete vehicles delivered they would have taken them a year ago. The problem is Bombardier wanted to ship vehicles that still needed more work, and the region told Bombardier to get them done before shipping them, and that the region doesn't want to be storage space for incomplete vehicles. I'm pretty sure the original contract for vehicle delivery specified 14 complete vehicles last year, not 14 vehicles that still needed more work.
502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.