I have a book that talks a bit about the history of Westmount. I do know it was originally two separate roads and only connected in, I think, the 60s. I surmise that prior to that it was a lot less important, more on the scale of Margaret Ave.
(07-31-2020, 09:26 AM)jamincan Wrote: [ -> ]I have a book that talks a bit about the history of Westmount. I do know it was originally two separate roads and only connected in, I think, the 60s. I surmise that prior to that it was a lot less important, more on the scale of Margaret Ave.
If memory serves, the Kitchener part of what is now Westmount Rd was Filsinger Ave. I don't think it was joined until the very late "60s or even early '70s.
A similar thing happened one arterial to the west - Fischer Road was attached to Hallman Street. Hence, Fischer-Hallman.
And to Stirling (formerly Sterling, then Stirling, "north" from Courtland and Shoemaker "south" from Mill).
The new West Ave crossing on the IHT is frustrating, although I never cycled through the old one for comparison. My main complaints
1) Since it's indirect, I see a large number of people bypassing it completely (and not just the usual variety with poor trail etiquette)
2) Crossing in either direction now removes your sight line for one direction of road traffic. If you are crossing towards Victoria, the West/Victoria intersection is to your back. If you are crossing away from Victoria it's slightly better, but your back in generally still away from West/Victoria. If you try and straighten out before crossing you end up blocking the path to opposing traffic. The narrowness of the Victoria side of the crossing is frustrating in general for negotiating with other trail users.
3) This crossing in particular I seem to have a lot of cars trying to yield to trail users, but since the island is tiny this is frustrating as I don't want to cross unless I can do it all in one shot.
I've found the yielding gaming frustrating in general as I've been cycling on the trails more. Do shark teeth have any legal bearing in Ontario? I've seen them used in a few places (Jubilee crossing, IHT/Glasgow), but I can't find anything Googling. Do they have a different name? Obviously I'd prefer active transportation have priority, but really I just want there to be less confusion...
And looking at street view, I just noticed a sign at the Victoria crossing saying to cross at the signalized intersection... Really?
(08-01-2020, 07:32 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ]The new West Ave crossing on the IHT is frustrating, although I never cycled through the old one for comparison. My main complaints
1) Since it's indirect, I see a large number of people bypassing it completely (and not just the usual variety with poor trail etiquette)
2) Crossing in either direction now removes your sight line for one direction of road traffic. If you are crossing towards Victoria, the West/Victoria intersection is to your back. If you are crossing away from Victoria it's slightly better, but your back in generally still away from West/Victoria. If you try and straighten out before crossing you end up blocking the path to opposing traffic. The narrowness of the Victoria side of the crossing is frustrating in general for negotiating with other trail users.
3) This crossing in particular I seem to have a lot of cars trying to yield to trail users, but since the island is tiny this is frustrating as I don't want to cross unless I can do it all in one shot.
I've found the yielding gaming frustrating in general as I've been cycling on the trails more. Do shark teeth have any legal bearing in Ontario? I've seen them used in a few places (Jubilee crossing, IHT/Glasgow), but I can't find anything Googling. Do they have a different name? Obviously I'd prefer active transportation have priority, but really I just want there to be less confusion...
And looking at street view, I just noticed a sign at the Victoria crossing saying to cross at the signalized intersection... Really?
That crossing is certainly poorly designed. That sign at Victoria has been there for years, long before the recent improvements to the IHT.
(08-01-2020, 07:32 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ]The new West Ave crossing on the IHT is frustrating, although I never cycled through the old one for comparison. My main complaints
1) Since it's indirect, I see a large number of people bypassing it completely (and not just the usual variety with poor trail etiquette)
2) Crossing in either direction now removes your sight line for one direction of road traffic. If you are crossing towards Victoria, the West/Victoria intersection is to your back. If you are crossing away from Victoria it's slightly better, but your back in generally still away from West/Victoria. If you try and straighten out before crossing you end up blocking the path to opposing traffic. The narrowness of the Victoria side of the crossing is frustrating in general for negotiating with other trail users.
3) This crossing in particular I seem to have a lot of cars trying to yield to trail users, but since the island is tiny this is frustrating as I don't want to cross unless I can do it all in one shot.
I've found the yielding gaming frustrating in general as I've been cycling on the trails more. Do shark teeth have any legal bearing in Ontario? I've seen them used in a few places (Jubilee crossing, IHT/Glasgow), but I can't find anything Googling. Do they have a different name? Obviously I'd prefer active transportation have priority, but really I just want there to be less confusion...
And looking at street view, I just noticed a sign at the Victoria crossing saying to cross at the signalized intersection... Really?
Like all pavement markings in Ontario sharks teeth have no legal meaning. But staff will only use them when they reinforce existing crossing priority. Of course, I would bet that around 99.98% of drivers in Ontario don’t know what they mean. This isn’t helped by Ontario’s decision to use the same symbol meaning two opposite things.
You have my full sympathy on this crossing. I’m really frustrated by it because I asked repeatedly to discuss it at KCaTC and was rebuffed.
(08-01-2020, 07:44 PM)Acitta Wrote: [ -> ]That crossing is certainly poorly designed. That sign at Victoria has been there for years, long before the recent improvements to the IHT.
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it was new. I just hadn't really noticed it before until I was searching through street view just now, specifically checking what signage was up for road and trail users. I guess I'm usually too busy watching for cars to notice a sign on the other side of the crossing.
(08-01-2020, 08:27 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]Like all pavement markings in Ontario sharks teeth have no legal meaning. But staff will only use them when they reinforce existing crossing priority. Of course, I would bet that around 99.98% of drivers in Ontario don’t know what they mean. This isn’t helped by Ontario’s decision to use the same symbol meaning two opposite things.
You have my full sympathy on this crossing. I’m really frustrated by it because I asked repeatedly to discuss it at KCaTC and was rebuffed.
I figured, which is a shame. I really like them. Though as I reflect on it, many of the IHT sight lines are too poor to work as-is anyways.
What is KCaTC?
(08-01-2020, 08:55 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2020, 07:44 PM)Acitta Wrote: [ -> ]That crossing is certainly poorly designed. That sign at Victoria has been there for years, long before the recent improvements to the IHT.
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it was new. I just hadn't really noticed it before until I was searching through street view just now, specifically checking what signage was up for road and trail users. I guess I'm usually too busy watching for cars to notice a sign on the other side of the crossing.
(08-01-2020, 08:27 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]Like all pavement markings in Ontario sharks teeth have no legal meaning. But staff will only use them when they reinforce existing crossing priority. Of course, I would bet that around 99.98% of drivers in Ontario don’t know what they mean. This isn’t helped by Ontario’s decision to use the same symbol meaning two opposite things.
You have my full sympathy on this crossing. I’m really frustrated by it because I asked repeatedly to discuss it at KCaTC and was rebuffed.
I figured, which is a shame. I really like them. Though as I reflect on it, many of the IHT sight lines are too poor to work as-is anyways.
What is KCaTC?
Definitely a shame, I agree they are an effective way to show priority, something that is usually only implicit and often poorly understood, and rarely followed
KCaTC is the Kitchener Cycling and Trails Committee, the citizen advisory committee on cycling and trails for the city of Kitchener.
(08-01-2020, 07:32 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ]I've found the yielding gaming frustrating in general as I've been cycling on the trails more. Do shark teeth have any legal bearing in Ontario? I've seen them used in a few places (Jubilee crossing, IHT/Glasgow), but I can't find anything Googling. Do they have a different name? Obviously I'd prefer active transportation have priority, but really I just want there to be less confusion...
There are shark teeth at every roundabout in the Region. They have no legal bearing.
(08-02-2020, 11:20 PM)timc Wrote: [ -> ] (08-01-2020, 07:32 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ]I've found the yielding gaming frustrating in general as I've been cycling on the trails more. Do shark teeth have any legal bearing in Ontario? I've seen them used in a few places (Jubilee crossing, IHT/Glasgow), but I can't find anything Googling. Do they have a different name? Obviously I'd prefer active transportation have priority, but really I just want there to be less confusion...
There are shark teeth at every roundabout in the Region. They have no legal bearing.
Good point. I typically go out of my way to avoid most of the roundabouts in this region, as a pedestrian. So that hadn't crossed my mind.
You got me curious though with your absolute claim. According to Google maps (which may just be outdated), Margaret/Union and both roundabouts at Conestoga mall seem to be exceptions.
C'mon guys...how do we expect people to know what "shark teeth" mean when 98% of drivers don't know what a "STOP" sign means.
(08-03-2020, 12:41 AM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2020, 11:20 PM)timc Wrote: [ -> ]There are shark teeth at every roundabout in the Region. They have no legal bearing.
Good point. I typically go out of my way to avoid most of the roundabouts in this region, as a pedestrian. So that hadn't crossed my mind.
You got me curious though with your absolute claim. According to Google maps (which may just be outdated), Margaret/Union and both roundabouts at Conestoga mall seem to be exceptions.
Those are both City of Waterloo roundabouts. Unfortunately, we have 3 (or maybe more) standards of roundabouts in the region, at least, City of Waterloo, City of Kitchener, and Region of Waterloo.
These posts have me wondering - I've never heard the term "shark teeth" and I can't say they're familiar to me from my driving - I guess I just never noticed them. I gather from looking it up that they're supposed to mark the spot where you stop when yielding to pedestrians?
At pedestrian crossings there's the white lines that mark the crossover itself and then there are white triangles with the tips pointing towards cars that mark where to stop. The white triangles are sharks teeth.