(07-13-2016, 09:18 PM)schooner77 Wrote: [ -> ]The sidewalk situation came to a head for me tonight, as I strolled out of Vincenzos and stood on the sidewalk, waiting for a car to finish a 3-point turn, before I crossed. Not expecting a collision, I was staring at the street, when a young girl came whizzing by me, telling me to "f-off" and get out of her "f-ing way", while she was riding on the sidewalk. It all happened so quickly, I was stunned and simply watched her ride down the sidewalk on Caroline. I continued my way down the Iron Horse Trail and low and behold, she was coming back down on Park, on the sidewalk. With a little time to think I, probably louder than I should have, told her to get off the sidewalk, there was a bike lane on the road. I was told to "f-off" again. She did then go into the bike lane, however on the wrong side of the road. No helmet either. No grandiose analogy here, just an anecdote.
I don’t think there can be much reasonable expectation of “education” for people like that. Drivers get some education, and you still have plenty of them telling each other to ‘f off.’ If someone’s running around (or biking around) using expletives to strangers because they’re standing in their way on the sidewalk, I would say that person has entitlement issues, and you’re probably not going to reach them through education.
Yesterday afternoon I rode on the sidewalk for the first time in a while. I was taking Guelph and trying to cross Weber. I was hot, and I wanted to get home, and that light will not change unless there is either a car or a person on foot. I take it often, and I have to wait until a car comes to activate the light. I was impatient this time, and rode up onto the sidewalk to press the button for people on foot. There was no one around on the sidewalk but, sure enough, as I was riding back on the road a car showed up behind. I rode back onto the road like I should have been all of the time, but when the car passed me on the other side of the intersection he made a point of glaring at me across the passenger seat. Who knows if it was because, from his limited perspective, I had decided to stop being a sidewalk rider on Weber and decided to be a road rider on Guelph.
Very many riders do this manoeuvre at Guelph and Weber, by the way. I’ve stood there early morning waiting for a bus and watched while cyclists show up at the lights, wait for varying periods, and then either proceed against the light or ride up onto the sidewalk to push the button. There’s a solution here and at other similar intersections where a low-volume street meets a high-volume one, and that’s bike-activated lights specifically for cyclists. I’m not sure if it would be called for here, but Guelph is designated a cycling route by the City of Kitchener: if you’re going to encourage people to use a route, it should have the infrastructure to serve them.
(07-13-2016, 09:30 PM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]I really think it's folks like these that education would go a long way with.
I just assumed mandatory bike education was happening in schools still. I'm dating myself, but I remember very vividly when I was in elementary school in the late 80's/early 90's that we had the OPP come in and one day every year, they'd set out pylons in the yard and we'd get called out one-by-one (class at a time) and get our refresher course about the rules of the road. And I grew up in a village of 600 with a tiny school! We'd bike around the course and get pointers and tips on what we were doing right, and wrong. Drilled it right into our brains from an early age.
Operation Lifesaver was another one, even though we only had one train crossing way out on the edge of the village. Still, to this day, I have the utmost respect for railways and absolutely refuse to take my foot off the brake until the lights are out, arms are fully up and I've looked both ways down the tracks (no matter how annoyed the folks behind me get).
I also remember doing this as a student, but sadly, I believe this isn't happening anymore. Although there could be exceptions.
(07-14-2016, 08:09 AM)Spokes Wrote: [ -> ]I also remember doing this as a student, but sadly, I believe this isn't happening anymore. Although there could be exceptions.
According to Luisa D'Amato, offering training to students for safe bicycle riding would be a waste of tax dollars...
(07-14-2016, 08:13 AM)MidTowner Wrote: [ -> ] (07-14-2016, 08:09 AM)Spokes Wrote: [ -> ]I also remember doing this as a student, but sadly, I believe this isn't happening anymore. Although there could be exceptions.
According to Luisa D'Amato, offering training to students for safe bicycle riding would be a waste of tax dollars...
She thinks we should be spending our tax dollars on licensing instead of building infrastructure. Her positions on cycling are not exactly....evidence based.
I was biking on Columbia Street last night, going from the rail path to the Canadian Tire on Weber. When I got to Weber the light was red and there wasn't much traffic in either direction (no cars on my side), so I got into the left turn lane. Then I saw cars appear facing me on the other side and figured I'd be waiting there for a while, but my bike actually triggered the advanced green! I never expect that.
Typically at busy intersections I feel more comfortable dismounting and crossing one/both directions on foot if I'm doing a left turn. It can also speed up travel a little if the lights aren't in my favour.
I've always wondered that - just how sensitive the inductive loops are to the frame of a (metal!) bicycle. And where is the best spot to have the best chance of triggering the sensor? Is it with the bike crossing one of the wires, or within the loop?
The best place to be to be detected by the loop is over a part of it, not entirely within the loops. The configurations can differ from intersection to intersection; often, you can see grooves where the loops are installed.
I’m pretty impressed that you triggered the left advance, tvot- to my knowledge, that’s never happened to me. It could be a fun thing to experiment with. I’ve read about inductive loops installed specifically to detect bikes, but I have always assumed that the ones here would not be able to.
(07-14-2016, 10:02 AM)Canard Wrote: [ -> ]I've always wondered that - just how sensitive the inductive loops are to the frame of a (metal!) bicycle. And where is the best spot to have the best chance of triggering the sensor? Is it with the bike crossing one of the wires, or within the loop?
I haven't had any luck setting off the advanced green at Lancaster/Wellington when I'm on the bike. When there is a car there it always gets the advanced green.
I generally have little trouble getting the loops to detect me and my bike. And when they don't, it usually means that something needs to be adjusted. I've gotten pretty good responsiveness from the Region when I've reported a sensor that isn't working right. They do actually care.
If the sensor at Guelph and Weber doesn't accurately detect bikes, has anyone tried contacting the regional transportation department?
There's only one intersection I haven't figured out yet, but I don't think it's as simple as a sensor. I haven't been able to trigger a left turn while northbound on Phillip at Columbia. But I think the sensor is placed further back from the intersection so that it will only trigger if there are two or more vehicles waiting to turn.
This site has some info about various sensor configurations and optimal bike position within the sensor. Using the conventional single loop design, it seems it's best for the bike to sit over one edge of the loop. The type of bike and rims is also going to make a difference. A carbon bike with carbon rims will be pretty much impossible to detect with an induction loop.
So many good points to address!
Education: While we're sharing anecdotes: I rode the wrong way down bike lanes when I was in my first year at UW. This was until someone took me aside and told me that they were lanes of traffic and I was about as wrong as could be. My little podunk town in Northern Ontario had zero infrastructure for biking (and my house was too far from town to make it worth the trek) so I just had zero idea about how to properly behave on a bike.
Even with mandatory cycling education in Ontario Public Schools there will be students who didn't take it because a) they didn't have a bike b) they weren't educated in Ontario Public Schools c) they were educated in a region that didn't have cycling infrastructure, so rules about bike lanes and MUTs and things will likely be missed.
And there will be still others I've missed who just treat bikes as a sort of "fast-pedestrian" mode of transit instead of a "slow-car" mode, which is how it is regulated. Not sure what to do about them.
Pedestrian Beg Buttons: when I arrive at a street whose signal I do not trust to activate, I activate my kickstand and walk to the beg button to hit it, leaving my bike in place. I only have to do this in one place on a very lightly used street with low speeds, so YMMV, but I find it the clearest statement of intent and, thus, the safest. (Also, my bike isn't the most expensive to replace so I'm not risking too much leaving it in the lane for a few moments).
(07-14-2016, 09:51 AM)tvot Wrote: [ -> ]I was biking on Columbia Street last night, going from the rail path to the Canadian Tire on Weber. When I got to Weber the light was red and there wasn't much traffic in either direction (no cars on my side), so I got into the left turn lane. Then I saw cars appear facing me on the other side and figured I'd be waiting there for a while, but my bike actually triggered the advanced green! I never expect that.
Typically at busy intersections I feel more comfortable dismounting and crossing one/both directions on foot if I'm doing a left turn. It can also speed up travel a little if the lights aren't in my favour.
I have also had little trouble triggering the sensors for lights, on left turn and such, at least, when you can see them. The most trouble I have had is when there aren't grooves or they aren't visible where the sensor is placed. Because a bike is so small, it's much more important to ride directly over the sensor than in a car.
That being said, it likely depends very much on the type of bike, and how much metal (or steel) is in it.
The biggest trouble I've actually had is on a handful of bike lanes I've encountered with lights which don't trigger unless a car is present, and where the bike lane has no sensor. Thus, if I rider where I'm supposed to, I never get to go. Very frustrating.
(07-14-2016, 11:26 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest trouble I've actually had is on a handful of bike lanes I've encountered with lights which don't trigger unless a car is present, and where the bike lane has no sensor. Thus, if I rider where I'm supposed to, I never get to go. Very frustrating.
I’m of the opinion that you can take the lane if you so choose, even when there’s a bike lane present. I do this regularly on one part of my commute because there seem to be a lot of right-turning cars that sometimes don’t signal, and I find it simpler to just get in line up with them. I signal to get out of and then back into the bike lane, so I don’t think it’s a problem, but maybe someone can correct me if it’s a faux pas. I would say that getting into the other lane for the reason of activating the signal is a pretty good one.
Thanks to everyone for all the info on sensors! I simply haven’t been paying enough attention to them; next time I’m at Weber and Guelph, I’ll try to get them to notice me.
(07-14-2016, 11:39 AM)MidTowner Wrote: [ -> ] (07-14-2016, 11:26 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]The biggest trouble I've actually had is on a handful of bike lanes I've encountered with lights which don't trigger unless a car is present, and where the bike lane has no sensor. Thus, if I rider where I'm supposed to, I never get to go. Very frustrating.
I’m of the opinion that you can take the lane if you so choose, even when there’s a bike lane present. I do this regularly on one part of my commute because there seem to be a lot of right-turning cars that sometimes don’t signal, and I find it simpler to just get in line up with them. I signal to get out of and then back into the bike lane, so I don’t think it’s a problem, but maybe someone can correct me if it’s a faux pas. I would say that getting into the other lane for the reason of activating the signal is a pretty good one.
Thanks to everyone for all the info on sensors! I simply haven’t been paying enough attention to them; next time I’m at Weber and Guelph, I’ll try to get them to notice me.
Oh, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the lane, and activating the sensor is a perfectly good reason. However, the context I'm in, I'm unaware the light is sensor triggered till I've waited it the bike lane for a while, I cannot simply approach in the next lane.
As for not using the bike lane, sometimes going behind turning vehicles makes sense, for example if traffic is moving, but other times, I'm perfectly willing to ride up to the front. As long as it isn't a large vehicle, and I can reasonably expect to get to the front before the light changes, and no vehicle has moved into the bike lane to turn (as is legal at the point the dotted line begins).
Failure to signal is an epidemic in our city however, I see police officers fail to signal on a regular basis.
As far as I know, if the sensor isn't working and you have waited a reasonable amount of time, it's legal to treat it as a malfunctioning signal and proceed through the intersection with caution. But I can't find any authoritative reference.
