(02-01-2021, 11:21 AM)taylortbb Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2021, 10:27 AM)panamaniac Wrote: [ -> ]Somebody would have to explain to me how having to pay airport fees at Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal could make for a financially viable route, when Bearskin cancelled it's Kitchener-Ottawa route because the Ottawa airport fees were too high. I don't get it ...
Bearskin operates tiny 19 seat planes, while the Q400 seats 70-78 passengers. Lots of the airport fees are per-plane, so if you can fill the larger plane (through the milk-run model) the airport fees are a lot more affordable.
The milk run should allow the airline to fill more seats as it is not just a single destination. And filling seats is the first priority in being profitable.
Fees in YOW, assuming the 50-seat CRJ100:
- Landing fee: $337.80 (assumes 6000 kg max takeoff weight)
- Terminal fee: $184.64
- Police and security charge: $136.00
ac3r Wrote:It seems like there are always airlines saying they're going to start up operations here, but then quickly shut that down when they realize very few people want to fly out of Waterloo Region. WestJet is the only passenger airline that has managed to stick around (edit...FlyGTA and Bearskin may still use the airport? But they only fly tiny charter flights with propeller planes, no jets).
FlyGTA was a great marketing ploy for the Region. The only full flight (and I think full was 5 people) was a media trip. After that there were less than 5 trips that actually happened. The website showed SOLD OUT for a lot of flights, but there were no planes in YKF on any of those dates. The fact that FlyGTA is mentioned at all shows the impact that one media day had on the knowledge of the masses.
Bearskin flew (pre-COVID) students from the north to YKF to be bussed to the school for the blind in Brantford on a charter. Bearskin also has maintenance done at Chartright (formerly MillardAir Hanger), but they have no scheduled passenger operations.
My biggest issue with YKF is the Regional management, as opposed to a for-profit company. [ie. YHM is owned by the City of Hamilton, but managed by a Vancouver company]. There is no real pressure to perform better. As well, they bend to the complaints of "taxpayer complaints". Nolinor Aviation ran a successful flight to Baffin Island for miners. This brought both jobs to our region, as well as tax paying residents who lived here when not at the mine. [They were two weeks up, two weeks down]. Three residents of Hidden Valley (AKA: $$$) were successful in complaining enough to push Nolinor Aviation out to Pearson.
Fast forward to a few months ago, where a new discount airline (that is actually flying passengers) started up (OWG) at Pearson. Guess which former YKF charter airline runs OWG. [Hint: They might piss off rich residents, but would of been a shoo-in to have started OWG operations in YKF if we didn't piss them off]
Coke
* NOTE: Pre-pandemic, YKF was consistently between the 8th-12th busiest airport in Canada... hitting 6th once about 15 years ago.
(02-02-2021, 11:45 AM)Coke6pk Wrote: [ -> ]ac3r Wrote:It seems like there are always airlines saying they're going to start up operations here, but then quickly shut that down when they realize very few people want to fly out of Waterloo Region. WestJet is the only passenger airline that has managed to stick around (edit...FlyGTA and Bearskin may still use the airport? But they only fly tiny charter flights with propeller planes, no jets).
FlyGTA was a great marketing ploy for the Region. The only full flight (and I think full was 5 people) was a media trip. After that there were less than 5 trips that actually happened. The website showed SOLD OUT for a lot of flights, but there were no planes in YKF on any of those dates. The fact that FlyGTA is mentioned at all shows the impact that one media day had on the knowledge of the masses.
Bearskin flew (pre-COVID) students from the north to YKF to be bussed to the school for the blind in Brantford on a charter. Bearskin also has maintenance done at Chartright (formerly MillardAir Hanger), but they have no scheduled passenger operations.
My biggest issue with YKF is the Regional management, as opposed to a for-profit company. [ie. YHM is owned by the City of Hamilton, but managed by a Vancouver company]. There is no real pressure to perform better. As well, they bend to the complaints of "taxpayer complaints". Nolinor Aviation ran a successful flight to Baffin Island for miners. This brought both jobs to our region, as well as tax paying residents who lived here when not at the mine. [They were two weeks up, two weeks down]. Three residents of Hidden Valley (AKA: $$$) were successful in complaining enough to push Nolinor Aviation out to Pearson.
Fast forward to a few months ago, where a new discount airline (that is actually flying passengers) started up (OWG) at Pearson. Guess which former YKF charter airline runs OWG. [Hint: They might piss off rich residents, but would of been a shoo-in to have started OWG operations in YKF if we didn't piss them off]
Coke
* NOTE: Pre-pandemic, YKF was consistently between the 8th-12th busiest airport in Canada... hitting 6th once about 15 years ago.
This is entirely on point.
It's insane that our region decided that owning childcare centres was unacceptable (the region should not be a "service provider") but we own and operate an airport.
Rainrider22 Wrote:Looks like another new air service providing the most routes yet...
https://www.waterlooairport.ca/Modules/N...0d73935789
I hope this is successful and they stay long term.
Flair started in Ontario out of YHM (Hamilton). WestJet/Swoop matched all their routes at least $1 cheaper (An Air Canada tactic for years). Once Flair was pushed out by the competition, WJ/Swoop raised prices and cut routes. (This is why I've always said I don't want AC to come to YKF... but I guess any airline can play the bully). They ended up moving to Pearson where they were largely ignored as a nobody in the big pond.
They have tried to get WJ to expand for years, and they haven't... so maybe Flair will be allowed to make a go of it.
YKF had a request for proposals a few years back that allowed airlines to bid on a route, that other airlines couldn't have for a two year period... I wonder if such a deal was made here, and they can have a chance like Porter did.
Coke
I'm puzzled by the idea of launching these new flights in the middle of a pandemic. There can't possibly be enough essential travel to justify it, can there?
I just looked at booking some seats to Halifax in June to do a quick vacation.... The prices are awesome... Family trip coming up.
panamaniac Wrote:I'm puzzled by the idea of launching these new flights in the middle of a pandemic. There can't possibly be enough essential travel to justify it, can there?
From the press release:
“
Once pandemic restrictions are lifted, the addition of Flair’s services will provide further connectivity to other economic hubs, create local jobs, build partnerships and help support the recovery of the local economy.” (Bolding is mine)
Coke
I give them 3-4 months until they cease operations like the rest.
I will take you on that bet..
Deal. Winner gets a ticket to anywhere on the next failed airline venture after this.
Ugh ULCCs are not my favourite in terms of the not-fun game where they get you to pay more than you want to with ridiculous fees like print your boarding pass fees. There were a lot of ULCC flights in Europe and I wonder about their environmental cost also (though there is potential for hypocrisy on my part there given the amount of air travel I usually do.)
In normal times I would be of the same opinion as ac3r. I believe that there is a pent up demand for travel. Combine that with the huge accumulation of savings. Add in that travel within the country will most likely open up before travel outside. They could very likely be successful.
(02-10-2021, 01:20 PM)plam Wrote: [ -> ]Ugh ULCCs are not my favourite in terms of the not-fun game where they get you to pay more than you want to with ridiculous fees like print your boarding pass fees. There were a lot of ULCC flights in Europe and I wonder about their environmental cost also (though there is potential for hypocrisy on my part there given the amount of air travel I usually do.)
I will hate on dishonesty in pricing as much as the next, but why do you question their environmental cost? Lower cost fares could drive up air travel, but I would think that they actually run more efficient flights, with fuller planes and no first class.