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(09-15-2022, 02:42 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-14-2022, 07:25 PM)ac3r Wrote: [ -> ]How would that kill a kid? They can just go around it. And most kids would be like "oh cool, a truck" and stop to look. Obviously they shouldn't be parking there but...it is what it is.

How does that kill a kid? Parent says "man, it's too dangerous for me to cycle with my kid, even the new MUT has giant transport trucks parked on it, so I'm going to put my child in a giant SUV instead, oh no, I ran over the neighbours kid."

...what?
(09-16-2022, 04:14 PM)ac3r Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-15-2022, 02:42 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]How does that kill a kid? Parent says "man, it's too dangerous for me to cycle with my kid, even the new MUT has giant transport trucks parked on it, so I'm going to put my child in a giant SUV instead, oh no, I ran over the neighbours kid."

...what?

What's confusing here? Thousands of children are seriously injured or die every year as a result of our car centric policies and culture...

Contributing to car dependency by doing things like..blocking bike infrastructure contributes to those deaths...even if only marginally, and not as a direct result.
Just to clarify - and I know I can use hyperbole - Franklin Road is a very fast stroad and that is a very narrow strip of grass if a child decides to bike around on the left side like I did. It's irresponsible and was the main source of my anger when I saw this while biking back with my takeout burritos.
(09-15-2022, 05:53 AM)plam Wrote: [ -> ]As a more direct example, the kid rides into the street while going around the obstacle on the cycling path and gets hit by a car while doing so.

Yeah, this is exactly it. As a a parent this type of parking (and when people leave their vehicle parked across the sidewalk) drives me crazy because my young kids need to bike/scooter behind the vehicle - which means turning towards and going down a slanted surface towards a road.

Young kids aren’t particularly steady riders and often have tunnel vision.

A lot would still have to go wrong for something terrible to happen but man it would be nice to just not have to worry about it at all. Particularly when there’s almost always an alternative option to blocking the sidewalk that just involves the driver walking 15 feet more.
So I've been thinking on stroads for the last little while here and I am thinking that service streets can provide a solution to them.

I am trying this idea out with a case study on Fairway Rd. (one of our stroadiest stroads). Here I've added service streets along the road to service all the retail businesses along Fairway Rd. between Wilson and Manitou. It eliminates dozens of driveways and two fully signalized intersections. It would clearly be a far far safer road, and would have bike infra for very cheap.

The cost is of course to access (as it always is) drivers in the other direction would have to go ~1 minute out of their way to make a U-turn. I feel like this is an easy price to pay, but given our traffic engineers love affair with stroads, I figure it'd be a hard sell.

You guys have any other thoughts on this.
(09-19-2022, 04:51 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]So I've been thinking on stroads for the last little while here and I am thinking that service streets can provide a solution to them.

I am trying this idea out with a case study on Fairway Rd. (one of our stroadiest stroads). Here I've added service streets along the road to service all the retail businesses along Fairway Rd. between Wilson and Manitou. It eliminates dozens of driveways and two fully signalized intersections. It would clearly be a far far safer road, and would have bike infra for very cheap.

The cost is of course to access (as it always is) drivers in the other direction would have to go ~1 minute out of their way to make a U-turn. I feel like this is an easy price to pay, but given our traffic engineers love affair with stroads, I figure it'd be a hard sell.

You guys have any other thoughts on this.

I think that would make a Fairway into a true road. Could something not quite as goo be accomplished by requiring all developers to at least connect their parking lots to one another and removing some access driveways. The Starbucks to MEC plaza is connected, unfortunetely the car dealership breaks up the frontage to the Toys R US plaza. On the other side if the shoppers plaza could connect to the Former Williams parking lot, you are then linked all the way to the Former RBC site. 
This did make me think, our worst Stroads did develop in the 50-70s. Roads from the 80s onward are mostly roads with a few nodes of Stroadiness here and there.
(09-19-2022, 07:32 AM)neonjoe Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-19-2022, 04:51 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]So I've been thinking on stroads for the last little while here and I am thinking that service streets can provide a solution to them.

I am trying this idea out with a case study on Fairway Rd. (one of our stroadiest stroads). Here I've added service streets along the road to service all the retail businesses along Fairway Rd. between Wilson and Manitou. It eliminates dozens of driveways and two fully signalized intersections. It would clearly be a far far safer road, and would have bike infra for very cheap.

The cost is of course to access (as it always is) drivers in the other direction would have to go ~1 minute out of their way to make a U-turn. I feel like this is an easy price to pay, but given our traffic engineers love affair with stroads, I figure it'd be a hard sell.

You guys have any other thoughts on this.

I think that would make a Fairway into a true road. Could something not quite as goo be accomplished by requiring all developers to at least connect their parking lots to one another and removing some access driveways. The Starbucks to MEC plaza is connected, unfortunetely the car dealership breaks up the frontage to the Toys R US plaza. On the other side if the shoppers plaza could connect to the Former Williams parking lot, you are then linked all the way to the Former RBC site. 
This did make me think, our worst Stroads did develop in the 50-70s. Roads from the 80s onward are mostly roads with a few nodes of Stroadiness here and there.

Yeah, I mean, modern roads do restrict intersections some what...just look at Ira Needles.

But it's still frustrating how willing regional engineers are to put unnecessary and risk inducing intersections on their roads. Just look at Ira Needles between University and Thorndale. Despite having roundabouts with direct access into the plaza only 600 meters apart, the engineers still felt the need to have two right-in-right-out and one full movement (extremely large) intersection in that distance. Like...why?! It's because safety is so far down the list of priorities that making drivers go an extra 600 meters is an unacceptable cost to pay to save lives?! Insanity.

And then our traffic movement figures get hurt...

So yeah, new roads are a little better, they tend not to have dozens of smaller businesses like Fairway Rd. does.

To be honest, I don't even know if it's the engineers that have achieved this, or if it's the concentration of development into a few larger scale developments rather than dozens of smaller business owned properties.

As for if developers could be forced to achieve this by connecting their parking lots? Maybe? I doubt it. For one, unless you actually close the driveways you won't achieve any safety or throughput improvements because people will always turn into their convenient location. For another, parking lots aren't always lined up, so it may involve a lot of jogs. Possibly it could be useful for bike infra...but...honestly I think a planned corridor is better. But there's nothing to stop the city eminent domaining a chunk from all the parking lots to fit in the service street. I'm pretty sure my design does encroach on most of the properties.
Not sure what thread to put this in, but the sidewalk (or rather, the parking and planter portion) is being replaced on the block in front of Eaton Lofts & Shoppers. There is some fencing on the opposite side of King St as well, so it may be happening there.

To my extreme disappointed, every single tree on the block has been cut down, just as they were getting to be of a reasonable size (i.e. you actually notice that they were there). I can't find any information on this construction, but if the tree cutting extends beyond this block I will be livid.
(09-30-2022, 06:21 PM)dtkvictim Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure what thread to put this in, but the sidewalk (or rather, the parking and planter portion) is being replaced on the block in front of Eaton Lofts & Shoppers. There is some fencing on the opposite side of King St as well, so it may be happening there.

To my extreme disappointed, every single tree on the block has been cut down, just as they were getting to be of a reasonable size (i.e. you actually notice that they were there). I can't find any information on this construction, but if the tree cutting extends beyond this block I will be livid.

That's a big shame.

It's frustrating that given how often trees are used as a reason that we cannot do something, that they are cut down so easily.
Does anybody know if there provincial (MiniTrans) requirements for roundabout layout in Ontario? Googling only gets me results like how to drive in a roundabout, or signage from the Ontario Traffic Manuals.

This goes to that image I post a bit a go of a Dutch-style roundabout done up with Ontario traffic markings. It had sharper right hand turns to enter land leave, just like Dutch roundabouts where as Ontario roundabouts all have slip-lane like entrances and exits so cars don't have to slow down very much (unless the roundabout is so busy that they have to stop).

I'm trying to determine if Ontario roundabout are designed that way for reasons of regulatory compliance, of it it's just traffic engineers just stuck in their groove and not adapting, like so much else about North American traffic engineering.
(10-02-2022, 03:56 PM)Bytor Wrote: [ -> ]Does anybody know if there provincial (MiniTrans) requirements for roundabout layout in Ontario? Googling only gets me results like how to drive in a roundabout, or signage from the Ontario Traffic Manuals.

This goes to that image I post a bit a go of a Dutch-style roundabout done up with Ontario traffic markings. It had sharper right hand turns to enter land leave, just like Dutch roundabouts where as Ontario roundabouts all have slip-lane like entrances and exits so cars don't have to slow down very much (unless the roundabout is so busy that they have to stop).

I'm trying to determine if Ontario roundabout are designed that way for reasons of regulatory compliance, of it it's just traffic engineers just stuck in their groove and not adapting, like so much else about North American traffic engineering.

I suspect that the standards you are asking about can be found in the TAC manual that is used by—I’m guessing all Canadian road building organizations despite it not being AFAIK a regulatory requirement. It’s more an engineering liability requirement—use this book to not get sued. 

https://www.tac-atc.ca/en/publications-a...dian-roads

Transportation Association of Canada - Geometric Design Guide for Canadian Roads.

Unfortunately it is an expensive book and I don’t have a copy so I don’t know if it contains roundabout specific guidance or if it is just being cobbled together from other parts of the standard.
I saw a proposal for a stacked townhouse development at 2155 Strasburg Road, which is safely on the south end of the new extension. I guess this would be a catalyst to open it past Rockcliffe.

The details on the road extension have been archived from the city's website so there's no info available on when it's expected to be complete through to New Dundee Road, or at least Robert Ferrie.
(10-03-2022, 01:11 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect that the standards you are asking about can be found in the TAC manual that is used by—I’m guessing all Canadian road building organizations despite it not being AFAIK a regulatory requirement. It’s more an engineering liability requirement—use this book to not get sued. 

https://www.tac-atc.ca/en/publications-a...dian-roads

Transportation Association of Canada - Geometric Design Guide for Canadian Roads. 

Unfortunately it is an expensive book and I don’t have a copy so I don’t know if it contains roundabout specific guidance or if it is just being cobbled together from other parts of the standard.

For those of us who are in Canada, Inter-Library Loan is a wonderful thing. A couple of Ontario universities have it for instance. Public libraries can do ILLs sometimes too.
(10-06-2022, 10:18 PM)plam Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-03-2022, 01:11 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect that the standards you are asking about can be found in the TAC manual that is used by—I’m guessing all Canadian road building organizations despite it not being AFAIK a regulatory requirement. It’s more an engineering liability requirement—use this book to not get sued. 

https://www.tac-atc.ca/en/publications-a...dian-roads

Transportation Association of Canada - Geometric Design Guide for Canadian Roads. 

Unfortunately it is an expensive book and I don’t have a copy so I don’t know if it contains roundabout specific guidance or if it is just being cobbled together from other parts of the standard.

For those of us who are in Canada, Inter-Library Loan is a wonderful thing. A couple of Ontario universities have it for instance. Public libraries can do ILLs sometimes too.

Looks like Dana Porter has a copy.

https://ocul-wtl.primo.exlibrisgroup.com...ads.%20%20
(10-07-2022, 02:11 PM)jwilliamson Wrote: [ -> ]
(10-06-2022, 10:18 PM)plam Wrote: [ -> ]For those of us who are in Canada, Inter-Library Loan is a wonderful thing. A couple of Ontario universities have it for instance. Public libraries can do ILLs sometimes too.

Looks like Dana Porter has a copy.

https://ocul-wtl.primo.exlibrisgroup.com...ads.%20%20

It looked like a pretty old copy to me, which might predate recent construction of roundabouts.