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+--- Thread: Toronto transit projects (/showthread.php?tid=527)
RE: Toronto transit projects - Viewfromthe42 - 09-28-2016
A lot of people will be thinking "That'll show Bombardier, maybe now they'll get on schedule!" when really, you can't speed it up almost at all. If anything, it's making the new train construction building Bombardier's putting together seem a bit riskier.
RE: Toronto transit projects - danbrotherston - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 08:32 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: A lot of people will be thinking "That'll show Bombardier, maybe now they'll get on schedule!" when really, you can't speed it up almost at all. If anything, it's making the new train construction building Bombardier's putting together seem a bit riskier.
Yes, this is my thought as well, Bombardier would be less willing to invest if they're not likely to win more contracts.
RE: Toronto transit projects - ijmorlan - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 09:53 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(09-28-2016, 08:32 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: A lot of people will be thinking "That'll show Bombardier, maybe now they'll get on schedule!" when really, you can't speed it up almost at all. If anything, it's making the new train construction building Bombardier's putting together seem a bit riskier.
Yes, this is my thought as well, Bombardier would be less willing to invest if they're not likely to win more contracts.
That’s competition. In order for capitalism to work, there has to be a real fear of failure (customers fleeing to a competitor) on the part of the supposed capitalists. Otherwise it’s fake capitalism.
RE: Toronto transit projects - danbrotherston - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 10:24 AM)ijmorlan Wrote:(09-28-2016, 09:53 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: Yes, this is my thought as well, Bombardier would be less willing to invest if they're not likely to win more contracts.
That’s competition. In order for capitalism to work, there has to be a real fear of failure (customers fleeing to a competitor) on the part of the supposed capitalists. Otherwise it’s fake capitalism.
This is correct, in general, but this is why capitalism breaks down in some cases, telecom is one example, because the cost overhead of running wires to everyone's home doesn't allow multiple competitors, we have a world where you have Bell as your only provider for local land line service (VoIP is now a reasonable option, but that's a recent development). And here, there's very few train manufacturers because its such a large custom product, the risk is enormous, so it's difficult for capitalism to function. I think capitalism is "fake" as you put it far more often than people think, but this is a rather large philosophical digression.
RE: Toronto transit projects - tomh009 - 09-28-2016
Maybe not quite fake, but rarely pure: competition is often limited, either by artificial barriers (e.g. regulations) or by financial ones (cost of entry). Land lines, wireless bandwidth, development costs for trains or aircraft, market share momentum etc. Oligopolies and near-oligopolies are not uncommon.
RE: Toronto transit projects - danbrotherston - 09-28-2016
Generally agree, I wish more people understood this however.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Osiris - 10-03-2016
(09-28-2016, 10:36 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:(09-28-2016, 10:24 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: That’s competition. In order for capitalism to work, there has to be a real fear of failure (customers fleeing to a competitor) on the part of the supposed capitalists. Otherwise it’s fake capitalism.
This is correct, in general, but this is why capitalism breaks down in some cases, telecom is one example, because the cost overhead of running wires to everyone's home doesn't allow multiple competitors, we have a world where you have Bell as your only provider for local land line service (VoIP is now a reasonable option, but that's a recent development). And here, there's very few train manufacturers because its such a large custom product, the risk is enormous, so it's difficult for capitalism to function. I think capitalism is "fake" as you put it far more often than people think, but this is a rather large philosophical digression.
I can't imagine the cost overhead is significantly greater than 130 years ago that it couldn't be done if the true desire was there.
![[Image: screen_shot_2013-02-28_at_9.30.43_am.png]](http://img.gawkerassets.com/post/4/2013/02/screen_shot_2013-02-28_at_9.30.43_am.png)
Although in a way you've proven the success of fake capitalism - few people rarely take exception when a company says "can't do it, too costly".
RE: Toronto transit projects - danbrotherston - 10-03-2016
(10-03-2016, 11:40 AM)Osiris Wrote: ...
I can't imagine the cost overhead is significantly greater than 130 years ago that it couldn't be done if the true desire was there.
...
Although in a way you've proven the success of fake capitalism - few people rarely take exception when a company says "can't do it, too costly".
"The success of fake capitalism"...is in convincing people that capitalism works, while not practicing it.
And yes, there are places which have multiple electrical providers, even today they are this way. We have cheaper, and more reliable power.
RE: Toronto transit projects - KevinL - 01-24-2017
Not sure of the source of the render, but the top picture in this story seems to indicate the Eglinton LRT will have grassed-over track for at least some of its length.
RE: Toronto transit projects - KevinL - 03-02-2017
Hoo boy.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Breaking: Court docs show Metrolinx in talks with alternate vehicle supplier for Eglinton Crosstown as legal fight with Bombardier continues</p>— Ben Spurr (@BenSpurr) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenSpurr/status/837338255821529089">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
RE: Toronto transit projects - timc - 03-02-2017
More posturing?
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 03-20-2017
We'll find out tomorrow (court hearing). Makes sense they would - they're trying to cancel their order with Bombardier simply because they have too many LRV's on order. The extra LRV's are for all the LRT lines that Rob Ford cancelled in his first day of office. It wouldn't look good if they went right back to Bombardier and said "Oh wait, let's only order about 90". So, with their tails between their legs, now they have to start planing ahead and going with a different vehicle supplier just to save face. It's really disgusting, actually.
RE: Toronto transit projects - KevinL - 03-20-2017
They would really rather cancel the entire contract than reduce the size of the order?
Contract stuff really puzzles me sometimes.
RE: Toronto transit projects - ijmorlan - 03-20-2017
(03-20-2017, 12:19 PM)Canard Wrote: We'll find out tomorrow (court hearing). Makes sense they would - they're trying to cancel their order with Bombardier simply because they have too many LRV's on order. The extra LRV's are for all the LRT lines that Rob Ford cancelled in his first day of office. It wouldn't look good if they went right back to Bombardier and said "Oh wait, let's only order about 90". So, with their tails between their legs, now they have to start planing ahead and going with a different vehicle supplier just to save face. It's really disgusting, actually.
What a bunch of idiots. If they would just start construction on the Sheppard LRT and give up on the idiotic STC one-stop subway, going instead for the previously-planned ICTS -> LRT conversion, they would need most or all of the vehicles in the order.
Note: I’m aware that it is the political level which is mostly pushing the subway, so please take the “bunch of idiots” as referring to a somewhat poorly-defined group of people. Who is really being stupid, and who just doesn’t want to lose their job? But it really is just flagrant incompetence at many levels.
RE: Toronto transit projects - Canard - 03-21-2017
Bombardier is absolutely destroying Metrolinx in the court. Loving this.