(05-20-2021, 12:22 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: Had a 24 hr layover in Belgium on my way back from Africa - at the airport this bus pulled up.  At first I thought it was an LRT/Tram.  Wish GRT picked whomever manufacturers these as the iON bus.

(05-26-2021, 05:05 PM)bgb_ca Wrote: Looks like the reduced (Senior/Child) fare is going bye bye as of July 1st, being replaced with their Affordable Transit Program.

https://www.grt.ca/Modules/News/index.aspx?newsId=cf114eb0-d943-4046-8916-1cb175b042cf&feedId=bbee2b8e-91b6-4696-8c3d-481dbf28de8e,24b9d7cd-762a-4496-ad74-4e816cb9adc8,d23e5a74-6488-4978-9740-594267f59ea8,38cb3425-641c-49a2-a83b-f03081ea8431,31820c97-a4b0-4704-ab8b-7c088247077a,69a9e0f5-98d5-4bcc-8f1e-5537cb4c997b

(05-26-2021, 05:49 PM)jeffster Wrote:

(05-26-2021, 05:05 PM)bgb_ca Wrote: Looks like the reduced (Senior/Child) fare is going bye bye as of July 1st, being replaced with their Affordable Transit Program.

https://www.grt.ca/Modules/News/index.aspx?newsId=cf114eb0-d943-4046-8916-1cb175b042cf&feedId=bbee2b8e-91b6-4696-8c3d-481dbf28de8e,24b9d7cd-762a-4496-ad74-4e816cb9adc8,d23e5a74-6488-4978-9740-594267f59ea8,38cb3425-641c-49a2-a83b-f03081ea8431,31820c97-a4b0-4704-ab8b-7c088247077a,69a9e0f5-98d5-4bcc-8f1e-5537cb4c997b

This has to the be the stupidest thing they have come up with. Many parents with high school students aren't rolling in cash, yet the cut-off is ridiculously low. Imagine, this stupid region considers a family of 4 earning $37,000 as rich.

Further to that, you brought in your widowed parent who still likes to get around? No more discounts, as your family is rich.

The region should steal Scotia Banks Moto "You're richer than you think!".

Not overly surprised considering who our regional chair is.

I am OK with subsidizing those who can't afford it, but for some families, getting a second car might be a cheaper option than buying passes.

(05-26-2021, 06:43 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I do disagree though, there is no situation where a family will get a second car for less than transit...the adult pass is 90 per month or 1080 per year...even if you got a free car, insurance plus gas will be more than that. There are plenty of folks who might choose to own a car even though it is more expensive, but that decision will not be financially motivated.

(05-26-2021, 07:02 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:

(05-26-2021, 06:43 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I do disagree though, there is no situation where a family will get a second car for less than transit...the adult pass is 90 per month or 1080 per year...even if you got a free car, insurance plus gas will be more than that. There are plenty of folks who might choose to own a car even though it is more expensive, but that decision will not be financially motivated.

But remember that in this area, a car is worth much more than transit (assuming a free driver is available).

For a family of 5, those passes would add up to $5400 per year, which might be into the range of covering a basic used vehicle and which regardless is a substantial fraction of any lower income person’s income. I agree that seniors as a class don’t need a discount; the seniors for whom such a policy is designed should be covered by a non-age-specific program (well, actually I think there should be a guaranteed annual income and no special programs to make things cheap for poor people, but that’s another story).

Kids are another matter. Don’t they know that you need to get your clients hooked early? 

(05-26-2021, 06:43 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:

(05-26-2021, 05:49 PM)jeffster Wrote: This has to the be the stupidest thing they have come up with. Many parents with high school students aren't rolling in cash, yet the cut-off is ridiculously low. Imagine, this stupid region considers a family of 4 earning $37,000 as rich.

Further to that, you brought in your widowed parent who still likes to get around? No more discounts, as your family is rich.

The region should steal Scotia Banks Moto "You're richer than you think!".

Not overly surprised considering who our regional chair is.

I am OK with subsidizing those who can't afford it, but for some families, getting a second car might be a cheaper option than buying passes.

I do think more targeted fare programs make sense. Some seniors are well off, and don't need a subsidy.

I agree that the cut off is way too low, but they do that to limit the cost of the program.

I agree with the sentiment though...our region is very big on the "fake progressive" liberal situation. We should have broader more significant subsidies for those who struggle to afford transit.

I do disagree though, there is no situation where a family will get a second car for less than transit...the adult pass is 90 per month or 1080 per year...even if you got a free car, insurance plus gas will be more than that. There are plenty of folks who might choose to own a car even though it is more expensive, but that decision will not be financially motivated.

(05-26-2021, 08:32 PM)jeffster Wrote:

(05-26-2021, 06:43 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I do think more targeted fare programs make sense. Some seniors are well off, and don't need a subsidy.

I agree that the cut off is way too low, but they do that to limit the cost of the program.

I agree with the sentiment though...our region is very big on the "fake progressive" liberal situation. We should have broader more significant subsidies for those who struggle to afford transit.

I do disagree though, there is no situation where a family will get a second car for less than transit...the adult pass is 90 per month or 1080 per year...even if you got a free car, insurance plus gas will be more than that. There are plenty of folks who might choose to own a car even though it is more expensive, but that decision will not be financially motivated.

The problem with the limit is that it is way too low. As I said, $37,000/year for a family of 4, for example, is close to poverty. So if they have a couple school aged children, this is an additional $300/year (if 10 months). While that doesn't seem like a lot, for those already struggling to pay for this service and make ends meet, it is a lot of money.

Though personally, for kids that are borderline too close for the yellow bus, yet too far to walk it every day, even the old rate was too much. I took the bus to high school for 4 years, and I am trying not to date myself, but according to the inflation calculator, my cost was either $25/month or $45/month in 2021 dollars.

Should be noted, that those who can afford university, still have a $96 pass that's good for 4 months (though Conestoga is $300). It's a regressive system that attacks the lower middle and middle class.

We now have a system that the smartest and richest get the cheapest rate, while the absolute poorest get a bit of a discount (though still 100% more expensive than a U-Pass) and an f-u to everyone else including the college kids who are in college likely because university is too costly. What an ass backwards region. What the hell. Oh, and if you qualify because you work for a corporation that is part of TravelWise, you too get a discount, but go screw yourself if you work in a crappy factory or at ShortStop. Those corporate people can actually AFFORD to pay full fare, I should know, as I work for one.

Also, I think it's disgusting that in this day and age the region is asking for income verification. Yes, RoW, people really want to show you how poor they are, how they have a shitty job, and how stupid they are because they can't get a job that pays more than $15/hour. Yet they have enough honour and self-worth to at least try to work FT to support their family on $40G a year. What a bunch of ignorant assholes working for the region. Totally disconnected from reality. Wow. Give your ratepayer some dignity. It's one thing to confirm ODSP, OW, or that you fought in WW2 or Iraq or wherever, but confirming that you're poor is just so out of touch. I just can't imagine how embarrassing it will be for low income earners collecting tax information from all members of the household to prove that they're piss poor.

Man, why am I so pissed off with this? It's not like it affects me... but I see this as being so wrong on so many levels. But I am sure brainiacs that are better than the rest of us think this is a terrific idea, and people like me have zero clue what we're talking about.

(05-26-2021, 10:32 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: By the way, is it really the case that the program gives people with income less than a certain number a fixed percentage off, and those with income perhaps $1/year more no discount? If so that is disgusting. Don’t these people understand the concept of marginal tax rates? If the program started phasing out at the specified limits and finished phasing out at double the limits it would be at least defensible even if not ideal.