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+--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Grand River Transit (/showthread.php?tid=13)
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RE: Grand River Transit - tomh009 - 01-14-2023
(01-14-2023, 12:25 AM)ijmorlan Wrote:(01-13-2023, 08:20 PM)ac3r Wrote: I certainly support it. And I also think the region should offer free transit to the homeless (if they can somehow prove they are...not sure how they'd do that however) rather than discounted fares. It would facilitate them with finding a job (and then getting to it), seeing family and friends who can act like social supports, going to psychiatric or social support obligations and potentially get them out of downtown to a better designed, maintained and secured (24/7 security) encampments the region is attempting to get operational. Many complained the proposals are too far away and that is very true, so maybe having free transit for them to get to ones further away and would hopefully lessen the size and number of the shanty and tent towns they've got set up.
Of course, this would further increase the effective marginal tax rate applying to low-income people.
What would increase the tax rate? I don't think free transit would be taxable, would it?
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 01-14-2023
(01-14-2023, 01:23 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(01-14-2023, 12:25 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Of course, this would further increase the effective marginal tax rate applying to low-income people.
What would increase the tax rate? I don't think free transit would be taxable, would it?
I assume the point was that funding free transit would increase the tax rate...which is not unreasonable I don't think.
(I of course, would fund such projects by cutting things like our roads budget, but that's just me).
RE: Grand River Transit - tomh009 - 01-14-2023
(01-14-2023, 01:28 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:(01-14-2023, 01:23 PM)tomh009 Wrote: What would increase the tax rate? I don't think free transit would be taxable, would it?
I assume the point was that funding free transit would increase the tax rate...which is not unreasonable I don't think.
(I of course, would fund such projects by cutting things like our roads budget, but that's just me).
OK, so property taxes, not income taxes (marginal rates typically refer to income taxation) ... but I think the effective cost of offering free transit passes rather than discounted passes to low-income people would be minimal in terms of increasing property taxes. I don't have numbers handy but I think the impact would be in the low tenths of one per cent.
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 01-14-2023
(01-14-2023, 02:03 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(01-14-2023, 01:28 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: I assume the point was that funding free transit would increase the tax rate...which is not unreasonable I don't think.
(I of course, would fund such projects by cutting things like our roads budget, but that's just me).
OK, so property taxes, not income taxes (marginal rates typically refer to income taxation) ... but I think the effective cost of offering free transit passes rather than discounted passes to low-income people would be minimal in terms of increasing property taxes. I don't have numbers handy but I think the impact would be in the low tenths of one per cent.
I would generally agree. I also disagree that we "have" to increase taxes...I believe there's plenty of money in the budget...we just need to allocate it more effectively.
But challenging the status quo is not something our government has been overly willing to do.
RE: Grand River Transit - taylortbb - 01-15-2023
(01-14-2023, 01:23 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(01-14-2023, 12:25 AM)ijmorlan Wrote: Of course, this would further increase the effective marginal tax rate applying to low-income people.
What would increase the tax rate? I don't think free transit would be taxable, would it?
I think the point is that the marginal increase in going from homeless to housed-but-low-income would now be larger. Someone making that transition would, in addition to suddenly having to pay for rent, also effectively have their taxes (in the form of transit user fees) raised. I believe the suggestion is that free transit should perhaps be more gradually phased out.
RE: Grand River Transit - tomh009 - 01-15-2023
(01-15-2023, 03:41 AM)taylortbb Wrote:(01-14-2023, 01:23 PM)tomh009 Wrote: What would increase the tax rate? I don't think free transit would be taxable, would it?
I think the point is that the marginal increase in going from homeless to housed-but-low-income would now be larger. Someone making that transition would, in addition to suddenly having to pay for rent, also effectively have their taxes (in the form of transit user fees) raised. I believe the suggestion is that free transit should perhaps be more gradually phased out.
A fair point -- but if their income increasees then it's not technically a tax rate increase.
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 01-15-2023
(01-15-2023, 03:33 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(01-15-2023, 03:41 AM)taylortbb Wrote: I think the point is that the marginal increase in going from homeless to housed-but-low-income would now be larger. Someone making that transition would, in addition to suddenly having to pay for rent, also effectively have their taxes (in the form of transit user fees) raised. I believe the suggestion is that free transit should perhaps be more gradually phased out.
A fair point -- but if their income increasees then it's not technically a tax rate increase.
I mean, I am fully in favour of municipalities having more progressive taxation.
But I also think that not providing social services to those most in need because the tax is not a progressive tax is fairly self defeating.
On the other hand, I'm also fully in favour of finding "efficiencies" (to use the euphemism of government arsonists) in the roads and police budget to fund these things as well.
RE: Grand River Transit - ijmorlan - 01-15-2023
(01-15-2023, 03:41 AM)taylortbb Wrote:(01-14-2023, 01:23 PM)tomh009 Wrote: What would increase the tax rate? I don't think free transit would be taxable, would it?
I think the point is that the marginal increase in going from homeless to housed-but-low-income would now be larger. Someone making that transition would, in addition to suddenly having to pay for rent, also effectively have their taxes (in the form of transit user fees) raised. I believe the suggestion is that free transit should perhaps be more gradually phased out.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Correct.
Except that, rather than phasing it out gradually, my solution is not to have free transit, discounted utilities, etc. and etc. ad infinitum, but just to have a guaranteed minimum income. Then everybody can participate in the economy without poorer people having to apply for all sorts of complicated income support programs.
RE: Grand River Transit - tomh009 - 01-16-2023
(01-15-2023, 05:29 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Except that, rather than phasing it out gradually, my solution is not to have free transit, discounted utilities, etc. and etc. ad infinitum, but just to have a guaranteed minimum income. Then everybody can participate in the economy without poorer people having to apply for all sorts of complicated income support programs.
Universal minimum income is (most likely) a great solution. The pilot projects that I have read about have been successful and have had good outcomes. But this is a big thing that would need to be implemented at a provincial or (more likely) federal level, I don't think it's realistic for the cities or the region to do this.
RE: Grand River Transit - nms - 01-27-2023
Wilfrid Laurier students vote to keep GRT's U-Pass program (CBC)
Quote:The results show 88 per cent of undergraduate students and 75 per cent of graduate students supported the continuation of the program, according to a news release from the region.
RE: Grand River Transit - ac3r - 01-31-2023
A funny video was posted to Reddit today that is 100% accurate about our local bus stops: https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/comments/10q3aqc/waterloo_region_when_its_time_to_design_a_bus_stop/
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ac3r - 02-01-2023
(02-01-2023, 05:13 PM)SF22 Wrote: I was just saying this morning that I'm so irritated with the lack of shelters at the bus stops closest to my house. One of them has a clear 'space' issue, but the other one totally could fit a shelter and a bench. The stops in either direction (on both sides of the road) both have shelters and benches, but not mine!
(If I owned the house that fronted onto a bus stop, I would be installing a bench along the sidewalk as a matter of civic duty.)
Yup! The Reddit thread was actually about exactly this. Someone uploaded a video from @climateandtransit that has him looking at really nice bus shop shelter designs and going "uh...nah...no" and then it gets to a North American one that is just a sign in the ground beside a ditch where he goes "oh yeah that's the one haha": https://www.tiktok.com/@climateandtransit/video/7193003560592821546
I also hate the lack of bus stop amenities here. The benches...well usually I don't sit on those even if they are there because people pee and shit on them for fun or vomit on them after heavy drinking but benches are still nice to have if you don't mind taking the risk of using them. And having some form of shelter from the elements would be wonderful. Not to mention, it would be nice if a concrete pad could be installed at many that are just indeed a patch of grass beside the curb. The lack of garbage cans is annoying as well. I'll wait at a shelter sometimes and it will look like a garbage truck just unloaded its entire load behind it. It's disgusting. It doesn't make people want to take the bus when that is what they have to deal with while waiting for one.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Chris - 02-02-2023
We should try and find the single worst bus stop in the region. My first vote would be for the one on 34 in front of Christie. Here, stand in this shitty snow bank in the forest and wait for a bus.
RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 02-02-2023
Hmm...
Seems GRT has been doing a lot of upgrading in the past 5 years. I had two that I'd say were in the running. The iXpress stops on Maple Grove Rd. and the stop on Bridge St. just south of University Ave. Both I've used and are terrible for the context...both have been improved since I had to use them.
Honestly, it's just frustrating, because again, funding is not the limiting factor. Sure, funding affects some things, like we're seeing service cuts because of funding. But especially for capital projects, there's funding available. The main limiting factor is engineering skill and willingness to de-prioritize cars.
I'd still argue that both examples I give are bad because they're dangerous if you end up on the wrong side of the road, but I'd like to add a few ION stations for how egregious they are...given that they are mass transit stations we should expect more, and for them to have serious deficiencies in pedestrian access is inexcusable.
Also...probably this should move to GRT thread.
RE: Grand River Transit - danbrotherston - 02-08-2023
Outhit on his usual anti-transit tear:
https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2023/02/08/rising-costs-plunging-ridership-passengers-abandoned-ion-trains-far-more-than-buses-as-grand-river-transit-struggled-in-pandemic.html
AFAIK ION ridership has nearly completely rebounded.
Also, this is an argument FOR ION...ION captured ridership from demographics which had choices about how they get around, as opposed to buses which are more less likely to capture ridership from people who have other transportation options.
Further, he has a backwards causation...but in his defense, god damn transportation planners make the same error...arguing that service cuts respond to rather than induces changes in ridership.