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+--- Thread: Grand River Transit (/showthread.php?tid=13)
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RE: Grand River Transit - MidTowner - 01-27-2016
Does anyone know if GRT has information somewhere about its usage of transit signal priority (TSP)? I have read about the TSP installed as part of the Ion aBRT, and I remember reading that the King corridor had something like twenty TSP devices installed around the time that the iXpress was launched. My understanding is that these are used only when buses are running late- but I don’t really have any idea what that means.
There must be rules somewhere- what constitutes ‘late’ for a bus’ TSP system to be activated, when a red light is truncated or a green extended (or whatever else the system does). I’ve never seen them. Does anyone know if there’s a document somewhere that lays them out?
I’m curious why (especially with aBRT in Cambridge) we are not using this technology (for which we have already paid) to make transit service faster. I’m really curious to what extent it’s used at all- if it’s only when buses are running egregiously late, or if it’s a commonplace thing to promote schedule adherence.
RE: Grand River Transit - chutten - 01-27-2016
(01-27-2016, 11:54 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Does anyone know if GRT has information somewhere about its usage of transit signal priority (TSP)?
According to the recent news item about priority signals for aBRT "To find out more about signal priority for transit vehicles you can visit the Ministry of Transportation website: www.mto.gov.on.ca."
I'm not sure exactly what subpage is supposed to contain the information you're after, but there's a short blurb from the "Driver's Handbook" that shows a picture and has a short explanation: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/handbook/section3.2.7.shtml
RE: Grand River Transit - Canard - 01-27-2016
While it would be nice to always use them, the problem is then you get bunching or unreliable service. By unreliable, I mean not-on-time, which can be too early, too!
Imagine always thinking your bus shows up at 8:14. Then the bus uses TSP and shows up at your stop 6 mins early, and you miss your bus.
RE: Grand River Transit - MidTowner - 01-27-2016
I understand your point, but I don't think that's right. The bus system (or particular bus lines) should be able to use TSP to improve speeds generally, but in a predictable way. The schedule itself could be condensed, not ignored. As it stands now, I believe that the schedules are designed to reflect buses traveling in mixed traffic with no use of TSP whatsoever, and the TSP technology we paid for is only used when buses are late (I don’t know how late they have to be to activate it).
RE: Grand River Transit - Canard - 01-27-2016
Yes but if you automatically trigger TSP at every single intersection, you still can't produce reliable service.
If your car maxes out at somewhere around 200 km/h, you still can't be sure that a bit of wind won't knock you back to 180 (or you'll get a tailwind and be able to do 210). You take what you think you can do and multiply by 80% and make that the thing. Which I think is kind of what you're saying - measure the route speed assuming every single light will TSP green, then multiply by 80% and use that.
RE: Grand River Transit - DHLawrence - 01-27-2016
I don't know if it's still done, but in the Cambridge Transit days if a bus got to a stop too early, it stayed there until it was on time again. Of course, this was also the time of half-hourly service and precious few bus shelters.
RE: Grand River Transit - MidTowner - 01-27-2016
(01-27-2016, 06:26 PM)Canard Wrote: Which I think is kind of what you're saying - measure the route speed assuming every single light will TSP green, then multiply by 80% and use that.
Currently, as I understand it, our bus schedules are based on what buses can reliably do without TSP. If for whatever reason it falls behind schedule, it can use TSP to catch up.
Yes, what I'm saying is a reliable (and faster) schedule could be developed based on using TSP at every single light or a majority of lights, and as you say adjusted down a bit to be conservative.
RE: Grand River Transit - mpd618 - 01-27-2016
(01-27-2016, 11:54 AM)MidTowner Wrote: I’m curious why (especially with aBRT in Cambridge) we are not using this technology (for which we have already paid) to make transit service faster.
Because traffic engineers are worried about the impacts on car traffic flows, and politicians have not pushed them to make better use of the traffic priority technology for transit.
RE: Grand River Transit - Canard - 01-27-2016
I don't think that's the case - in fact, 570 news even did a piece a few weeks ago pointing out that buses on 24 were now bypassing lights, and to not be alarmed if it looked like they were going through red lights.
RE: Grand River Transit - MidTowner - 01-28-2016
Again, my understanding is that those signals are only used when buses are behind schedule (so, relatively infrequently). But I wish GRT published their guidelines for signal prioritization use so we could understand when and how it's used.
RE: Grand River Transit - zanate - 01-28-2016
(01-28-2016, 09:38 AM)MidTowner Wrote: Again, my understanding is that those signals are only used when buses are behind schedule (so, relatively infrequently). But I wish GRT published their guidelines for signal prioritization use so we could understand when and how it's used.
Have you asked them? They might tell you. You could direct your question to Blair Allen at the region.
RE: Grand River Transit - KevinL - 01-28-2016
(01-27-2016, 11:15 PM)Canard Wrote: I don't think that's the case - in fact, 570 news even did a piece a few weeks ago pointing out that buses on 24 were now bypassing lights, and to not be alarmed if it looked like they were going through red lights.
Highway 24 is a special case as the lights actually have separate signals for buses - a vertical white bar, above the others. Thus it can look like a bus is 'running a red' if observers are not familiar wtih that signal.
Signal priority does not require the white-bar lights, though, and the question is when and how it's being used in general.
RE: Grand River Transit - Canard - 01-28-2016
An open house evening to the traffic control centre for WRConnected members would probably answer all of the questions.
RE: Grand River Transit - Pheidippides - 01-29-2016
I vaguely recall hearing the that 200's signal priority only kicks in when it is >3 minutes behind schedule; but I can't find the reference for now, but that would align with the GRT performance standard that buses are considered on-time, "..if it departs a scheduled timepoint no more than 3 minutes late." As side note, I've never come across the above linked performance measurement page before showing trends by month; only two indicators for now though (overall ridership and on-time performance).
Another definition from http://www.grt.ca/en/aboutus/FAQ-Performance-Measurements.asp:
"A bus is considered on time when it has departed from a timepoint at the scheduled time or no more than 3 minutes late. A bus departing more than 3 minutes after the scheduled time is considered late, while a bus departing before the scheduled time is considered early.
...On-time performance is then calculated by determining the percent of buses that are never early and up to 3 minutes late..."
This article from August 2015 talks about the signal priority for the aBRT/Ion BRT:
"Traffic signal priority will also be in place. When buses are behind by more than two minutes, green lights on Hespeler can be extended or red lights shortened to allow the buses to make up time."
RE: Grand River Transit - MidTowner - 01-29-2016
Thank you very much for that, Pheidippides!