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ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version

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RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - numberguy - 04-12-2015

(04-10-2015, 01:20 PM)DHLawrence Wrote: Which division is the closest to being a moneymaker, aviation or rail?

Rail, by far.   The recent delays of its C series jet have cost Bombardier billions of dollars.   It's a big gamble, stepping up in plane size and going up against the big boys like Boeing etc.   To make money, you have to spend money and revenues from a SUCCESSFUL C series launch would be huge.

But that hasn't happened yet.   So Bombardier is investigating a possible spin-off or partial sale of its rail unit to give it time for its C series launch to happen (no pun intended):  http://business.financialpost.com/news/transportation/bombardier-inc-explores-sale-or-ipo-of-rail-business-as-aircraft-unit-falters-sources

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ookpik - 04-12-2015

(04-10-2015, 01:03 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: Bombardier last turned a real profit many decades ago. Ever since then they have survived through government handouts. Their modus operandi is to threaten to close a large plant, get the union to stand behind them and apply political pressure when bidding for a local contract. Nationalist voices then step in and provide further support. Wash, rinse and repeat.

How are Airbus and Embraer any different? And Boeing gets lots of subsidies from Uncle Sam by way of military spending. See for example: Competition between Airbus and Boeing and Bombardier Aerospace and Embraer S.A. government subsidy controversy

Even the "principled" Mr Harper, who as opposition leader spared no effort to air his conservative views by railing against subsidies to Bombardier, had to get on board the gravy train once he finally got into the first class seats in Parliament, proving once again that pigs can indeed fly high. (Sorry for the puns.)

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-12-2015



A bit concerning, for several reasons;

-The geometry of the trains used on G:link are the same as ours (except theirs are 7-section trains, not 5). To be clearer: our trains have wheels which are fixed rigidly to the frames of the odd-numbered modules, not on bogies which swivel like Toronto's CLRV and ALRV's. The fixed wheel arrangement makes it possible to have 100% low floor, and results in a lighter vehicle with a lower cost, but the disadvantage is that the entire mass of the module sitting on those wheels has to be steered by the flanges. I'm worried about the number of sharp turns our system has. Ottawa chose Alstom CITADIS trains which have articulated bogies.

-G:link was built by many of the same players as our system.

-A resolution was found by using special lubricants to mitigate some of the squeal in some sections. I hope this information is passed along to us.

I'm just going to put it out there one last time and bookmark this post to bring it up in 2-3 years Smile that Monorail or other rubber-tyred systems (VAL/CityVal, Kobelco AGT, INNOVIA APM, Crystal Mover, or heck - even TransLohr etc...) would have none of these problems. Their own other issues, sure, like the resistance to overhead guideway, but if you really wanted LRT over any of the other possibilities of newer transit technologies, this is the price.

I really don't want this to sound like doom and gloom, but just that I hope proper plans are in place to work the noise problem when it comes up.

(I'm happy to further the discussion about articulation/bogies/chassis design, if there's interest - I've actually been meaning to put together an animation about this for a while)

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-12-2015

That's a good video, and yes, the Straßenbahn Berlin uses fixed-axle Flexity trams.  Although the alignment there is mostly long, straight runs with very gentle curves.  The photo below shows off the axle location relative to the sections:

[Image: 4001_2011_02.jpg]

I only mentioned it in the above post because I've read on other forums that the TTC operators aren't happy that they've had to cut their speed in several sections of the 510 route (where they're rolling out the Outlooks) as a result of the lack of articulated bogies like the CLRV and ALRV's have.  The turnaround at Union was a struggle even for those.

Again, I hope it's a non-issue, but that solutions will be ready to put into place if it becomes one.  I'm not knocking on the vehicle choice, at all (the trains we got were my 1st choice, given the option) - if I were designing an articulated light rail vehicle from scratch, I would have ended up with the same design.

Edit - Note the lack of fences in your video, too! Wink

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-12-2015

It happens everywhere LRT is installed. Just look on YouTube. Houston takes the record with an average of 6 crashes per month.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ookpik - 04-12-2015

Zürich, with a population similar to K-W, has had a light rail (tram) system for well over a century. They run Bombardier trains including Flexity as well as other low-floor designs.

One of the most heavily-used lines runs down the main shopping street, Bahnhofstraße from the main train station, Hauptbahnhof, to a large square, Paradeplatz. There are at least half a dozen lines that run through both of those areas in several directions. Pedestrians cross those lines mostly without the need for barriers or traffic lights. 

And yet note...
• the number of pedestrians. 
• the lack of barriers. 
• the lack of pedestrians in the path of the trams. 
(• the guy in the second photo is crossing Paradeplatz behind the train.)

[Image: 250px-Bahnhofstrasse_-_Uraniastrasse_-_B...ShiftN.jpg][Image: 220px-Z%C3%BCrich_Paradeplatz.jpg][Image: 220px-Tango_als_Tram_in_Z%C3%BCrich_beim...eplatz.jpg]

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-12-2015

Well, maybe we need another night in front of Council with a number of delegations pointing this all out? Did anyone hear back from any of the council members they emailed? I didn't...

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jamincan - 04-14-2015

I just drove by the corner of Erb/Bridgeport/Father Dave Bauer, and it looks like they have some sort of track laying equipment staged there and a railcar with a bunch of short rail sections. I don't really know much about these things, but could they be close to placing track already north of there?

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - BuildingScout - 04-14-2015

(04-14-2015, 12:06 PM)jamincan Wrote: I just drove by the corner of Erb/Bridgeport/Father Dave Bauer, and it looks like they have some sort of track laying equipment staged there and a railcar with a bunch of short rail sections. I don't really know much about these things, but could they be close to placing track already north of there?

They park their track laying equipment there. Usually goes up North in the morning to lay track near the rail yard and comes back at the end of the day. It could just be that they are not laying track today so they left the equipment there.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - panamaniac - 04-14-2015

Does anyone know if the design of the ion stations has been finalized? I've seen some (rather modest) concept drawings, but I don't know if that's the actual design.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 04-14-2015

I too would love to see some final design drawings. I think we can assume they will be almost identical to the aBRT stops being finished off right now in Cambridge.

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - YKF - 04-14-2015

(04-14-2015, 06:00 PM)Canard Wrote: I too would love to see some final design drawings. I think we can assume they will be almost identical to the aBRT stops being finished off right now in Cambridge.

That would be somewhat depressing... I was hoping we'd draw a bit of inspiration from Calgary's stations (minus the high platforms). Money talks though and we know we're getting a fairly bare bones system when it comes to stations.
[Image: 005-album-0008.jpg]

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Drake - 04-14-2015

Here is a photo of a LRT stop in Long Beach, California I took in 2013. I do not recall seeing a fence anywhere along the route and I watched the train make a 90 degree turn and have no recollection of noise.

This station is neat because it has a bike station built into it. I think that is a ride share thing they do out there.

[Image: IMG_1831_zps57zmilfm.jpg]

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - nms - 04-15-2015

Article 14 of the Project Agreement gives some ideas of what to expect, notable, that the aBRT and LRT system should "read as one system" so it is very likely that the current aBRT stops will be very similar in design to the LRT stops.  Oddly, Article 14 refers to Appendix L for specific designs, but Appendix L is missing from the list of Project Agreement documents.

Lifting a few sections from Article 14, here is what is expected:

"The LRT Stops will be at-grade LRT vehicle loading/unloading areas composed of open air shelters at street level and platforms. ... [They will] Provide a comfortable ambient environment, adequate lighting, personal comfort, aesthetic quality, supplementary services, weather protection, and security. As the time spent by patrons in aggregate is substantial, the environment for patrons waiting for a LRT train must not only be safe and secure, but should also be enjoyable, comfortable and informative."

"Architecture
(i) The architectural concept of LRT Stops shall reflect the attributes of simplicity, economy, functionality, aesthetics, marketability, serviceability and safety as well as blend in with the local styles of the adjacent community. 
(ii) Create a civic architecture that is permanent, has a characteristic thread and contributes to its context – one that is not entirely derivative of the transit system, but of the neighborhoods and community of which it is a part.
(iii) Provide patron seating at shelters and other protected locations on the platform and protect transit passengers from adverse weather conditions (rain, wind and sun) and vehicular traffic.
(iv) Make transit safe, secure, friendly, fun and accessible to all, including users with disabilities. 
(v) Develop systems that use durable, low maintenance materials and minimize life cycle costs.
(vi) Provide patron seating at shelters and other protected locations on the platform "

"The facilities must be able to serve the needs of patrons efficiently, economically, safely, conveniently, and comfortably. These LRT Stops shall also provide for the traditional requirements of public transit systems: identity in neighborhoods or downtown areas as a location for public transit, shelter from severe weather, and cover and/or screening from average weather conditions."

RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - taylortbb - 04-15-2015

I'll also note the agreement requires that heated shelters be provided at some stations (Conestoga, Northfield, Hospital, Block Line, Fairview), and that all stations are designed to support the future installation of heated shelters.