(11-02-2017, 03:47 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote:

(11-02-2017, 01:22 PM)taylortbb Wrote: I'd say it is Bombardier's fault. It's not like the region delayed the vehicles because the region isn't ready for them (unlike say Metrolinx, which does appear to share in the fault). If the region could get fully functional complete vehicles delivered they would have taken them a year ago. The problem is Bombardier wanted to ship vehicles that still needed more work, and the region told Bombardier to get them done before shipping them, and that the region doesn't want to be storage space for incomplete vehicles. I'm pretty sure the original contract for vehicle delivery specified 14 complete vehicles last year, not 14 vehicles that still needed more work.

502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.

(11-02-2017, 04:13 PM)taylortbb Wrote:

(11-02-2017, 03:47 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: 502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.

Given that 503/504 still need more work to make them the same as the later vehicles I'd consider that incomplete, until then they're basically beta units. Functional beta units, but still beta (and therefore incomplete). I certainly agree that if the TTC hadn't cancelled Transit City then they'd have been the beta customer, and we wouldn't be, but that doesn't excuse Bombardier's delay. Timelines for delivery are supposed to include the beta testing phase.

At my work if we tell a customer we're delivering their product by X date and we only have a beta on X date, we don't get to say we met our timeline, even if the beta does most of what the customer wants.

(11-02-2017, 04:13 PM)taylortbb Wrote:

(11-02-2017, 03:47 PM)trainspotter139 Wrote: 502 only needed Grandlinq's work to be able to test it. the only vehicle that needs Bombardier to work on it more is 501. They haven't shipped us any incomplete vehicles since 501. The work that region has asked Bombardier to do on the completed vehicles there is to make the modifications (that Bombardier been making to perfect the overall design and process) to the completed ones in addition to the ones being built. This is so that there is a unified approach to maintaining the vehicles rather than minor differences between the individual vehicles. None of this would even be needed if the Sheppard East LRT wasn't shelved by Rob Ford because the changes would have been made already during the production run of the vehicles for Sheppard East. We have now become the launch customer which means we get the lovely benefit (if you can call it that) of being the guinea pigs.

Given that 503/504 still need more work to make them the same as the later vehicles I'd consider that incomplete, until then they're basically beta units. Functional beta units, but still beta (and therefore incomplete). I certainly agree that if the TTC hadn't cancelled Transit City then they'd have been the beta customer, and we wouldn't be, but that doesn't excuse Bombardier's delay. Timelines for delivery are supposed to include the beta testing phase.

At my work if we tell a customer we're delivering their product by X date and we only have a beta on X date, we don't get to say we met our timeline, even if the beta does most of what the customer wants.

(11-02-2017, 12:30 PM)KevinL Wrote: A surprise during 'substantial completion' - the platform at Frederick is wrapped in tarps. Not sure what's going on within.

(11-02-2017, 07:24 PM)Canard Wrote: I really hope they’re not wrapping them for the winter to protect them from the elements, but that looks exactly like what they’re doing. That stack of wood on that truck is a dead giveaway.