ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Printable Version +- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com) +-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14) +--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25) +--- Thread: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit (/showthread.php?tid=14) Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
584
585
586
587
588
589
590
591
592
593
594
595
596
597
598
599
600
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613
614
615
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625
626
627
628
629
630
631
632
633
634
635
636
637
638
639
640
641
642
643
644
645
646
647
648
649
650
651
652
653
654
655
656
657
658
659
660
661
662
663
664
665
666
667
668
669
670
671
672
673
674
675
676
677
678
679
680
681
682
683
684
685
686
687
688
689
690
691
692
693
694
695
696
697
698
699
700
701
702
703
704
705
706
707
708
709
710
711
712
713
714
715
716
717
718
719
720
721
722
723
724
725
726
727
728
729
730
731
732
733
734
735
736
737
738
739
740
741
742
743
744
745
746
747
748
749
750
751
752
753
754
755
756
757
758
759
760
761
762
763
764
765
766
767
768
769
770
771
772
773
774
775
776
777
778
779
780
781
782
783
784
785
786
787
788
789
790
791
792
793
794
795
796
797
798
799
800
801
802
803
804
805
806
807
808
809
810
811
812
813
814
815
816
817
818
819
820
821
822
823
824
825
826
827
828
829
830
831
832
833
834
835
836
837
838
839
840
841
842
843
844
845
846
847
848
849
850
851
852
853
854
855
856
857
858
859
860
861
862
863
864
865
866
867
868
869
870
871
872
873
874
875
876
877
878
879
880
881
882
883
884
885
886
887
888
889
890
891
892
893
894
895
896
897
898
899
900
901
902
903
904
905
906
907
908
909
910
911
912
913
914
915
916
917
918
919
920
921
922
923
924
925
926
927
928
929
930
931
932
933
934
935
936
937
938
939
940
941
942
943
944
945
946
947
948
949
950
951
952
953
954
955
956
957
958
959
960
961
962
963
964
965
966
967
968
969
970
971
972
973
974
975
976
977
978
979
980
981
982
983
984
985
986
987
988
989
990
991
992
993
994
995
996
997
998
999
1000
1001
1002
1003
1004
1005
1006
1007
1008
1009
1010
1011
1012
1013
1014
1015
1016
1017
1018
1019
1020
1021
1022
1023
1024
1025
1026
1027
1028
1029
1030
1031
1032
1033
1034
1035
1036
1037
1038
1039
1040
1041
1042
1043
1044
1045
1046
1047
1048
1049
1050
1051
1052
1053
1054
1055
1056
1057
1058
1059
1060
1061
1062
1063
1064
1065
1066
1067
1068
1069
1070
1071
1072
1073
1074
1075
1076
1077
1078
1079
1080
1081
1082
1083
1084
1085
1086
1087
1088
1089
1090
1091
1092
1093
1094
1095
1096
1097
1098
1099
1100
1101
1102
1103
1104
1105
1106
1107
1108
1109
1110
1111
1112
1113
1114
1115
1116
1117
1118
1119
1120
1121
1122
1123
1124
1125
1126
1127
1128
1129
1130
1131
1132
1133
1134
1135
1136
1137
1138
1139
1140
1141
1142
1143
1144
1145
1146
1147
1148
1149
1150
1151
1152
1153
1154
1155
1156
1157
1158
1159
1160
1161
1162
1163
1164
1165
1166
|
RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Bob_McBob - 02-11-2018 (02-10-2018, 11:45 AM)Canard Wrote: From the sounds of things, the curve at Northfield and the Spur is the latest casualty for gauge rework. Unbelievable. I drove past there around 3:30pm and there were several workers going at it with a tent and blowers, and a huge row of traffic cones restricting part of the right lane. On my way home at 10pm the equipment was all still there. Hopefully they will be done by Monday or the traffic won't be fun. RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - trainspotter139 - 02-11-2018 (02-11-2018, 12:09 AM)bgb_ca Wrote:(02-10-2018, 03:14 PM)Canard Wrote: Fixed that for you The uptown refit was a week. The hoardings went up on the 1st and they tested with the vehicle on the refit section on the 8th. RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 02-11-2018 (02-10-2018, 08:40 PM)Canard Wrote: Module order is A-D-C-E-B, with bogies in modules A, B, and C. Modules D and E are without wheels and supported by their neighbours. It is worth noting that this nomenclature is only valid for the 5-module variant; not the 3 or 7. In other words, you can't just benignly say "a C module is always a short, intermediate one with a bogie and no doors", because on the 3-module variant you'd have A-C-B, and C would be the same as a 5-module's D or E. Thanks for the detailed information and photos. Much appreciated! RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - ijmorlan - 02-11-2018 (02-10-2018, 10:18 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Are D and E modules interchangeable? How about A and B? I don’t know the full answer, but there has to be at least some small difference between D and E (and between the two ends of the C) because the C-D and C-E joints are different as mentioned in Canard’s post. In principle they could put most 1-per-train equipment in the C module (and indeed, that is where the pantograph is) and 2-per-train in the other modules, but I have no idea how this is actually laid out. In fact, I know almost nothing in detail about what equipment is present beyond vague notions that there must be traction components, power handling, climate control, etc. To a question somebody else asked about why there are only limited motions at the joints, if all the joints allowed pitch (up/down rotation) then the joints would not have a single defined arrangement to match any given track profile. The way it’s done, the C module can only exist in one pitch when the train is sitting on any given piece of track. Essentially the A-D-C/B-E-C (we don’t know which) modules form a bridge between the trucks on the A/B and C modules; then to keep the wheels on the B/A module on the track, it bends between the A-D-C/B-E-C and E-B/D-A modules. I don’t know exactly what would happen in practice if there were more pitch joints, but seems to be considered desirable that the positions of the modules follow deterministically from the shape of the track. I’m guessing the C module would rock backward and forward unpredictably but I don’t know. Actually now I want to know what that would feel like to ride in. Probably not as smooth as the actual ride. RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-11-2018 KevinL: that’s not why. Jamincan: The train would sag, and wouldn’t form a straight line on straight track. The system, kinematically, would be underconstrained. In other words, if you were a giant, you could reach down and twist and tip the train and it would stay in the pose you placed it in. That’s bad. I have been trying on and off for a couple of years to make an animation for you guys (knowing this would come up and someone would ask eventually!) about why the trains are articulated the way they are. There is a bug in SolidWorks that prevents me from completing it (I have an SPR in...). I may just make a little model out of LEGO and a video for you instead. It’s immediately obvious why it’s configured the way it is if you can feel it with a model. RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jamincan - 02-11-2018 I guess I can see why you wouldn't want any twist between the sections, or at least only one point that allows twist between the bogies, but I don't really understand the issue with pitch and yaw as I would have thought sections A-C-B were essentially fixed points relative to the track (in orientation and pitch). RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-11-2018 That’s the thing - they’re not! The bogies can pitch. So, if they did what you suggest, the whole train could be a zig-zag if viewed from the side. Even worse, even if the bogies truly were fixed axles directly mounted on the bogie frame, and we had pitch articulation between them, if the centre module were overloaded (say, by too many passengers), this would happen: This configuration for fixed-bogie* trams is very obvious when viewing a 3-module LRV moving along track with a vertical curve, like the bridge in Kansas City right by Union Station. The whole LRV looks like a ridgid log when moving across it. *- a little bit of a misnomer, because, as I’ve explained, the bogies can pitch relative to the module, and even yaw just a little bit, to take up shock/jerk loads, if spiral curves are not used (ie, Toronto’s legacy network). RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jamincan - 02-11-2018 Is the ability to pitch relative to the bogie simply an outcome of the suspension, or is it desirable for other reasons? RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-11-2018 It is a requirement, and achieved via the suspension springs. If not, and the axles were ridgidly affixed to the module frame, this would happen: (Trains would lift the leading and trailing axles when navigating a convex vertical curve) RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - jamincan - 02-11-2018 That wouldn't happen if they could pitch at the point of articulation, though. With only two bogies, you might run into an issue where too much weight between the bogies could lead to the entire vehicle sagging and lifting the front/rear-most wheels off the track. I suppose they could balance the sections out to a degree to prevent this, but it might be possible that an uneven distribution of passengers could cause a problem. RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-11-2018 Jamincan, my 2nd drawing in my 2nd last post illustrates exactly what you’re saying in your first paragraph, and why it won’t work. If the axles were fixed, and the vehicles could pitch between modules, you’d have a scenario where overloading the centre module causes a derailment. RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinT - 02-11-2018 Love your drawings Iain! RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Canard - 02-12-2018 Thanks - best I could do with limited resources RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - KevinL - 02-13-2018 I see that the tracks downtown (and on Charles at least as far as Stirling) have had a particularly thorough snow-cleaning done. Hopefully good signs for a later appearance here... RE: ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit - Viewfromthe42 - 02-13-2018 Whereas last night, the northbound tracks on Francis had several inches of hardpack and ice. |