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+--- Thread: Road design, safety and Vision Zero (/showthread.php?tid=1409)
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - jeffster - 01-25-2022
(01-25-2022, 03:01 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(01-25-2022, 11:47 AM)panamaniac Wrote: Same word in Canada. However, "impeach a Police witness" would be more accurate than "impeach the Police".
Well I did say “impeach police testimony”, although I think grammatically it is actually the witness, not the testimony, which is impeached.
But good to see from those articles posted by jeffster that judges actually do seem to consider seriously the credibility of police testimony, at least some of the time.
That sad thing about this is, the defendant (or accuser in some cases) needs a good lawyer. Legal Aid, self representation, duty council, for example, won't get decent results out of a judge 99% of the time when the police do things wrong.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - Coke6pk - 01-26-2022
When I worked by-law, I attended and testified many times. It was always instilled in me from when I started my career in Law Enforcement, that you never lie in the courtroom. If you get caught in a fib, even one time, your credibility will be shot forever... and the JP's (and Judges) talk among themselves.
I get paid, win or lose in court... and there were many defendants who bold face lied to the courts. Some got off with it, some were caught lying. To me it didn't matter... I give my evidence, and the courts make a decision.
I live by this to this day. Maybe a drug/firearms dealer/importer will get off... Not my concern... at least the stuff I got was kept off the streets. I don't get paid in court victories.
Every job has bad apples. Are there crooked/lazy cops? Yes. Are they majority, I'd say no. Should they be dealt with? Absolutely.
Just because I have a badge on my hip, I'd appreciate not being assumed as corrupt. Most of us actually care about this community, and do our jobs for the right reason, and the right way.
Coke
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - ac3r - 01-26-2022
It's not that all cops are corrupt, it's more that by being a cop, one is complicit in a massively corrupt and unfair system. 1312 and all that, even if some of them are chill when the uniform isn't on.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 01-26-2022
(01-26-2022, 07:33 PM)Coke6pk Wrote: When I worked by-law, I attended and testified many times. It was always instilled in me from when I started my career in Law Enforcement, that you never lie in the courtroom. If you get caught in a fib, even one time, your credibility will be shot forever... and the JP's (and Judges) talk among themselves.
I get paid, win or lose in court... and there were many defendants who bold face lied to the courts. Some got off with it, some were caught lying. To me it didn't matter... I give my evidence, and the courts make a decision.
I live by this to this day. Maybe a drug/firearms dealer/importer will get off... Not my concern... at least the stuff I got was kept off the streets. I don't get paid in court victories.
Every job has bad apples. Are there crooked/lazy cops? Yes. Are they majority, I'd say no. Should they be dealt with? Absolutely.
Just because I have a badge on my hip, I'd appreciate not being assumed as corrupt. Most of us actually care about this community, and do our jobs for the right reason, and the right way.
Coke
I'm in no way suggesting that all LEOs are corrupt. But it is entirely possible to care about your community, and be trying to do the best you can for your community, and still be advancing and supporting a corrupt, or even just broken, system.
I mean, I work for a bank, I should know this as well as anyone.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - jamincan - 02-04-2022
It's seems there's an epidemic of driving into the plaza at Lorraine and Heritage. Someone crashed into Grainharvest Breadhouse earlier in the week, and now someone else has crashed into the laundromat in the same building. In 2015, someone apparently crashed into the Lifelabs in the same building too.
https://twitter.com/josh_orita/status/1489607875236438017
Is anyone able to make any sense of it? Normally I attribute crashing into building to carelessness likely caused by being distracted, but in this case, due to the distance from the road and the angle of the crashes, it is likely that the accidents happened while they were parking. The most plausible scenario in that context is that someone confused their brake and gas pedals, but that seems extraordinarily unlucky for the plaza that two accidents of that profile would occur in such short succession.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 02-04-2022
(02-04-2022, 11:17 AM)jamincan Wrote: It's seems there's an epidemic of driving into the plaza at Lorraine and Heritage. Someone crashed into Grainharvest Breadhouse earlier in the week, and now someone else has crashed into the laundromat in the same building. In 2015, someone apparently crashed into the Lifelabs in the same building too.
https://twitter.com/josh_orita/status/1489607875236438017
Is anyone able to make any sense of it? Normally I attribute crashing into building to carelessness likely caused by being distracted, but in this case, due to the distance from the road and the angle of the crashes, it is likely that the accidents happened while they were parking. The most plausible scenario in that context is that someone confused their brake and gas pedals, but that seems extraordinarily unlucky for the plaza that two accidents of that profile would occur in such short succession.
I think it's the birthday paradox...it's likely that it's within the expected frequency, and it just seems exceptional because humans are bad at random.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - bravado - 02-04-2022
The local Shoppers Drug Mart down here in East Galt has been hit twice AND the gym next door in a separate building got driven into as well. It's a weirdly specific epidemic and I don't really know why, other than elderly people that shouldn't be driving.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - Bob_McBob - 02-04-2022
A 75 year old woman was struck and killed by a plow operator in a Kitchener parking lot yesterday. HTA doesn't apply so I assume no charges. Interesting both WRPS and The Record used less passive language than usual and actually blamed the driver rather than the pickup.
https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/02/03/fatal-collision-involving-pedestrian-reported-in-kitchener.html
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - danbrotherston - 02-04-2022
The language used is surprising...I wonder why...
I mean, it's a good thing, but I suspect it has something to do with the specific context (plough operator, parking lot, something like that).
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - ijmorlan - 02-04-2022
(02-04-2022, 05:14 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: A 75 year old woman was struck and killed by a plow operator in a Kitchener parking lot yesterday. HTA doesn't apply so I assume no charges.
That doesn’t mean no charges. If I operate my table saw carelessly and injure or kill someone I could be charged even though there is no vehicle in sight.
That being said, I have no idea what the outcome will be.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - Rainrider22 - 02-05-2022
Dangerous Operation of a Vehicle causing death and or criminal negligence cause death are both criminal and the offence can be anywhere. Doesn't matter if on private property.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - jamincan - 02-05-2022
(02-04-2022, 06:09 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: The language used is surprising...I wonder why...
I mean, it's a good thing, but I suspect it has something to do with the specific context (plough operator, parking lot, something like that).
Maybe. Or maybe journalists are paying attention to the criticism that passive language isn't neutral and attempting to do better. One can hope!
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - JoeKW - 02-05-2022
I noticed the language change as well and in discussion with my wife one possibility we identified was that sexism trumps car supremacy.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - Bob_McBob - 02-05-2022
(02-04-2022, 08:24 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: That doesn’t mean no charges. If I operate my table saw carelessly and injure or kill someone I could be charged even though there is no vehicle in sight.
I'm quite prepared to believe you might face criminal charges for killing or injuring someone with a table saw. However, drivers are rarely criminally charged for collisions with pedestrians even on public roads, and the bar is so high it usually only happens when they're impaired or grossly negligent.
There are many situations on private property where a driver would otherwise be charged under the HTA but gets off with no penalty. Think of that incident at the Mill Courtland Community Centre where someone just drove right over a man sitting on a raised curb area with his belongings in a completely empty parking lot. WRPS straight up said there was nothing they could charge the driver with because the HTA didn't apply and it didn't meet the threshold for criminal charges.
RE: Road design, safety and Vision Zero - tomh009 - 02-05-2022
(02-05-2022, 10:52 AM)Rainrider22 Wrote: Dangerous Operation of a Vehicle causing death and or criminal negligence cause death are both criminal and the offence can be anywhere. Doesn't matter if on private property.
Quite true. But charges under the Criminal Code must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt so convictions are more difficult than with an HTA offence.