Waterloo Region Connected
Cycling in Waterloo Region - Printable Version

+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Cycling in Waterloo Region (/showthread.php?tid=186)



RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Bob_McBob - 09-08-2018

D'Amato on the case...

New Waterloo bike lane was a strange place to hold a protest for safer cycling


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - jamincan - 09-08-2018

Is that the rationale the city has used? This is best practices in the Netherlands, so it should be applied here? The fact is that we don't live in the Netherlands. The expectations and driving practices of people here are not the same. It would be foolish to believe that a solution that works there could be applied here without adjusting for the local context. It seems to me to be a horrible irony that I, someone who is confident on my bike and rides a lot, actually actively avoid certain bike infrastructure in the region that supposedly adheres to best practices. So much for that.

The city and region in general is moving in the right direction, but there seems to be little desire to go back and understand what is working and what isn't working and adapting solutions for our local context. Instead, when challenged on inadequacies, instead of reassessing them and improving on them, leadership and planners get defensive and very reluctant to actually listen to what people using the infrastructure are experiencing. Instead, they point out that it's best practices and all those people talking about how they don't feel safe must just be wrong. It's terrible public engagement and terrible planning.

That said, the new promenade in Waterloo Park is fantastic and seems to be working well from what I have seen. Much better separation of pedestrians and cyclists than what I've seen in downtown Barrie. The fact that it has a clear barrier on both sides may help - there's not much reason for a pedestrian to want to get on the cyclist part of the trail. I also think the fence along the tracks there isn't nearly as bad as it seemed initially. I'm sure something nicer could have been done, but this isn't so bad. I don't recall now that I'm at home - is there any planting or something similar between the fence and the trail? A hedge could soften the impact of the fence.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 09-08-2018

(09-08-2018, 03:51 PM)jamincan Wrote: That said, the new promenade in Waterloo Park is fantastic and seems to be working well from what I have seen. Much better separation of pedestrians and cyclists than what I've seen in downtown Barrie. The fact that it has a clear barrier on both sides may help - there's not much reason for a pedestrian to want to get on the cyclist part of the trail. I also think the fence along the tracks there isn't nearly as bad as it seemed initially. I'm sure something nicer could have been done, but this isn't so bad. I don't recall now that I'm at home - is there any planting or something similar between the fence and the trail? A hedge could soften the impact of the fence.

There is grass and small trees between the trail and the fence. Inside the fence there is a variety of plants, including long grasses and I believe I saw some cattails growing in the ditch. Depending on what policy is adopted for cutting back growth in the right-of-way, there is a good chance the fence will almost disappear amongst the plant growth.

I agree that trail is working pretty well. They should have had the signs indicating pedestrians and bicycles installed before opening (given the delays, that should have been no problem), but the actual signage I think is pretty clear and is present in 10 locations along the path (both ends of the segregated section plus before and after every access to the trail). I don’t recall seeing anybody in the wrong lane since the signs were installed. So overall I’m very pleased. The scheduling mishaps won’t matter in the long run.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - KevinL - 09-08-2018

(09-08-2018, 03:51 PM)jamincan Wrote: Is that the rationale the city has used? This is best practices in the Netherlands, so it should be applied here? 

Even then, Dutch practice is to colour a fietspad in its distinctive terra cotta for its entire length. If they want to mimic that, we need this entire bike lane to be bright green, not just the intersections.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - goggolor - 09-08-2018

I've encountered a few pedestrians on the wrong path in Waterloo park but it's wide enough that you can usually go around them. Except for the young lady Friday morning who was jogging down the exact middle of the bike bridge with earphones on so she couldn't hear my repeated bell ringing.

The bigger issue is further up the trail, north of University where the hordes of new students don't seem to get what the yellow line is for, nor understand that hearing a bike bell means they might want to look up from their phones. But that's usually only an issue for the first couple weeks of September.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 09-08-2018

(09-08-2018, 05:38 PM)KevinL Wrote:
(09-08-2018, 03:51 PM)jamincan Wrote: Is that the rationale the city has used? This is best practices in the Netherlands, so it should be applied here? 

Even then, Dutch practice is to colour a fietspad in its distinctive terra cotta for its entire length. If they want to mimic that, we need this entire bike lane to be bright green, not just the intersections.

I'm not even sure this is best practice.  Dutch fietspads generally have roll curbs at the edges between the bicycle path and any boulevard in order to provide people the ability to swerve out of them to avoid an obstacle.  But many, if not most, did have a barrier curb between the road and the cycleway--albeit, generally a much smaller curb than here.

Of course, even if the Dutch design applied here, then we should have a barrier curb with the road, and a roll curb with the sidewalk, which would discourage both drivers and pedestrians from walking in the bike path.  Something that is a major problem here.

Here is a section of road similar to our King St.  You'll notice barrier curbs both where parking is, and where it isn't.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@52.104239,5.0939549,3a,75y,344.34h,67.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1UStZglacKXMkZ016ouiyQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1UStZglacKXMkZ016ouiyQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D117.73414%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e3

It's almost as if the "experts" don't have any clue what they're talking about....

Or to put it more fairly, my faith in the "experts" for traffic engineering is not very high right now.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - timc - 09-09-2018

(09-08-2018, 06:23 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Here is a section of road similar to our King St.  You'll notice barrier curbs both where parking is, and where it isn't.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@52.104239,5.0939549,3a,75y,344.34h,67.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1UStZglacKXMkZ016ouiyQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1UStZglacKXMkZ016ouiyQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D117.73414%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e3

That is brilliant. Really much better for bikes than what we have built Uptown.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 09-09-2018

(09-09-2018, 05:42 PM)timc Wrote:
(09-08-2018, 06:23 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Here is a section of road similar to our King St.  You'll notice barrier curbs both where parking is, and where it isn't.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@52.104239,5.0939549,3a,75y,344.34h,67.53t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s1UStZglacKXMkZ016ouiyQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D1UStZglacKXMkZ016ouiyQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D117.73414%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e3

That is brilliant. Really much better for bikes than what we have built Uptown.

They have a considerably narrower street to boot.  It might be the case that the sidewalks are narrower, and there is definitely less amenity space.  Still, interesting indeed.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Coke6pk - 09-10-2018

At the risk of being flamed for this comment....

Its ironic that that this image is being used as an ideal scenario. The street view shown has a lot of bikes parked all over the sidewalk. Is this not exactly what we are complaining about when cars/pedestrians encroach on the bike lane? The bikes shouldn't be encroaching on the pedestrian lanes. It works both ways....

Be gentle with your -1 ratings.... Smile

Coke


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 09:11 AM)Coke6pk Wrote: At the risk of being flamed for this comment....

Its ironic that that this image is being used as an ideal scenario.  The street view shown has a lot of bikes parked all over the sidewalk.  Is this not exactly what we are complaining about when cars/pedestrians encroach on the bike lane?  The bikes shouldn't be encroaching on the pedestrian lanes.  It works both ways....

Be gentle with your -1 ratings.... Smile

Coke

For reference, I literally picked a street at random in the Netherlands, this was the first one I chose, and it highlighted the specific items I wanted to show.  This wasn't meant to be the ideal scenario, merely typical.

As for the specific issues you highlight, I'll say two things.

First, you're right, and bike parking is a major issue in the Netherlands.  This is why they build enormous bike parking facilities.  It's an issue I wish we had, but it is none the less, an issue.  I think it would be ideal if we had so many bikes that they couldn't fit into the enormous amount of bike parking also visible in the area.

Second, I do think that it is it's different.  Even pedestrians encroaching the bike lanes is different. It's inconvenient for pedestrians (those who might use wheelchairs often use the bike lanes, so it's a non-issue), to walk around bikes, but not really difficult, or dangerous. That's fundamentally different than when cars are involved and there is a real danger of injury or death.  Even when pedestrians walk in the bike lane, I believe there is much less risk, I find it more annoying than dangerous, although still probably more dangerous than walking around parked bikes.

Also, no downvoting involved, this is a totally reasonable point of conversation, added, I believe earnestly.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 09-10-2018

Paid bicycle parking, too! Smile


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Viewfromthe42 - 09-10-2018

Heard that there's going to be a pilot of a bi-directional cycle track in the northernmost lane of bridgeport. Not sure from/to where, but has this been discussed publicly somewhere?


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - nms - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 12:19 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Heard that there's going to be a pilot of a bi-directional cycle track in the northernmost lane of bridgeport. Not sure from/to where, but has this been discussed publicly somewhere?

The Region's Construction and Road Closures portal has details about Bridgeport/Caroline work between King and Erb.  It is scheduled for 2019 last I heard and includes removing the northernmost last and adding a 3.0m off road multiuse trail among other things. I've noticed that some multiuse trails now include a yellow dividing line for two-way traffic.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 09-10-2018

(09-10-2018, 12:19 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Heard that there's going to be a pilot of a bi-directional cycle track in the northernmost lane of bridgeport. Not sure from/to where, but has this been discussed publicly somewhere?

I believe this is to be part of the Waterloo protected bike lane pilot project.

Edit: And indeed this project is delayed until 2019.


RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 09-11-2018

FYI: Drop bike appears to have been delayed till 2019.