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Cycling in Waterloo Region - Printable Version

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RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 08-18-2017

Weber St. recommended cycling infra plans are out:

http://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2017-08-22-Planning-and-Works-Committee/Agenda%20to%20Print.pdf

I will be opposing them on the grounds that a 1.5 meter cycling lane immediately adjacent to the wall on an uphill grade bridge next to what was described as "a truck acceleration lane" is unacceptable, nobody will cycle on it (you might as well put in a sidewalk instead) and if they do, eventually someone will be killed.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Viewfromthe42 - 08-18-2017

Can the particular segment be posted individually?

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 08-18-2017

(08-18-2017, 04:21 PM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Can the particular segment be posted individually?

I'm afraid I don't know how to link to within a PDF document.  If anyone does, let me know Smile. 

The TOC has links to the individual reports.  And the specific report is "TES-DCS-17-17" which you can Ctrl-F find in the document.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - timc - 08-18-2017

(08-18-2017, 03:57 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Weber St. recommended cycling infra plans are out:

http://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2017-08-22-Planning-and-Works-Committee/Agenda%20to%20Print.pdf

I will be opposing them on the grounds that a 1.5 meter cycling lane immediately adjacent to the wall on an uphill grade bridge next to what was described as "a truck acceleration lane" is unacceptable, nobody will cycle on it (you might as well put in a sidewalk instead) and if they do, eventually someone will be killed.

I don't suppose there is any possibility of adding a barrier to the left of the bike lane?

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 08-18-2017

(08-18-2017, 04:55 PM)timc Wrote:
(08-18-2017, 03:57 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Weber St. recommended cycling infra plans are out:

http://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2017-08-22-Planning-and-Works-Committee/Agenda%20to%20Print.pdf

I will be opposing them on the grounds that a 1.5 meter cycling lane immediately adjacent to the wall on an uphill grade bridge next to what was described as "a truck acceleration lane" is unacceptable, nobody will cycle on it (you might as well put in a sidewalk instead) and if they do, eventually someone will be killed.

I don't suppose there is any possibility of adding a barrier to the left of the bike lane?

No, the bike lane is too narrow for that, and a barrier would require the engineers to add more space to the vehicle lane (don't get me started), and there isn't more space either.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 08-18-2017

Interesting, therecord is reporting the police state the boy on the bicycle who was hit was not in a crosswalk.

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/7509912-truck-driver-cleared-after-collision-with-bicycle-riding-boy-12/

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - tomh009 - 08-18-2017

(08-18-2017, 06:13 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(08-18-2017, 04:55 PM)timc Wrote: I don't suppose there is any possibility of adding a barrier to the left of the bike lane?

No, the bike lane is too narrow for that, and a barrier would require the engineers to add more space to the vehicle lane (don't get me started), and there isn't more space either.

How much room does a barrier take?  20cm?  Even if you couldn't get any of that space from the vehicle lane (and really taking 10 cm from there should be a non-issue) that would leave 1.3m for the protected bike lane.  How much space does a protected bike lane need in order to be usable?

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 08-19-2017

(08-18-2017, 10:08 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(08-18-2017, 06:13 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: No, the bike lane is too narrow for that, and a barrier would require the engineers to add more space to the vehicle lane (don't get me started), and there isn't more space either.

How much room does a barrier take?  20cm?  Even if you couldn't get any of that space from the vehicle lane (and really taking 10 cm from there should be a non-issue) that would leave 1.3m for the protected bike lane.  How much space does a protected bike lane need in order to be usable?

So it depends on what type of barrier.  You might be able to fit flex posts in 20 cm, but something like a curb takes 0.5 meters.  Jersey barriers take even more.

A 1.3 m bike lane might be okay in some contexts, but between two barriers on a substantial uphill grade I don't think is going to be one of them.

As for taking space from vehicle lanes, I entirely agree, but sadly the engineers are utterly opposed to doing anything other than 3.35 meter lanes, and 3.65 meter curb face lanes.  It's incredibly frustrating.  But sadly that is the current situation.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - ijmorlan - 08-19-2017

(08-19-2017, 10:19 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(08-18-2017, 10:08 PM)tomh009 Wrote: How much room does a barrier take?  20cm?  Even if you couldn't get any of that space from the vehicle lane (and really taking 10 cm from there should be a non-issue) that would leave 1.3m for the protected bike lane.  How much space does a protected bike lane need in order to be usable?

So it depends on what type of barrier.  You might be able to fit flex posts in 20 cm, but something like a curb takes 0.5 meters.  Jersey barriers take even more.

A 1.3 m bike lane might be okay in some contexts, but between two barriers on a substantial uphill grade I don't think is going to be one of them.

As for taking space from vehicle lanes, I entirely agree, but sadly the engineers are utterly opposed to doing anything other than 3.35 meter lanes, and 3.65 meter curb face lanes.  It's incredibly frustrating.  But sadly that is the current situation.

What’s even more ridiculous is that if we would just reduce the road to a single traffic lane in each direction over the bridge, we would have tons of space for non-motor-vehicle traffic. It wouldn’t even be a matter of making any particular tradeoffs — you could probably have both a sidewalk and a bidirectional cycle track on each side. And I don’t believe a free-running segment of road with no intersections or driveways is where we need the additional lanes — it’s at intersections or locations with significant driveway activity that additional lanes are actually useful rather than just being a waste of resources, at least at the traffic levels that I understand exist on this particular road.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - KevinL - 08-19-2017

(08-19-2017, 12:40 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: What’s even more ridiculous is that if we would just reduce the road to a single traffic lane in each direction over the bridge, we would have tons of space for non-motor-vehicle traffic.

This was proposed, but it got 'too much negative feedback'.

It seems the car is still king in this town.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 08-19-2017

Construction on the Weber St. Bridge:


Lots more green paint now on Northfield:



RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - plam - 08-19-2017

(08-18-2017, 03:57 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Weber St. recommended cycling infra plans are out:

http://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Council/Detail/2017-08-22-Planning-and-Works-Committee/Agenda%20to%20Print.pdf

I will be opposing them on the grounds that a 1.5 meter cycling lane immediately adjacent to the wall on an uphill grade bridge next to what was described as "a truck acceleration lane" is unacceptable, nobody will cycle on it (you might as well put in a sidewalk instead) and if they do, eventually someone will be killed.

Doesn't look great. (If you're confused about where this is: Weber between Northfield and Albert, across the ION tracks.)

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - mpd618 - 08-19-2017

(08-19-2017, 02:20 PM)KevinL Wrote: This was proposed, but it got 'too much negative feedback'.

It seems the car is still king in this town.

This is a staff judgement for what is politically possible. Staff are not necessarily correct, and y'all who believe staff are prioritizing the angry motorist voices over good planning incorrectly should contact Regional councillors to let them know what you think. Regional Council can easily tell them that the proposal is unacceptable, and to make it work with fewer lanes.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - danbrotherston - 08-19-2017

(08-19-2017, 10:12 PM)mpd618 Wrote:
(08-19-2017, 02:20 PM)KevinL Wrote: This was proposed, but it got 'too much negative feedback'.

It seems the car is still king in this town.

This is a staff judgement for what is politically possible. Staff are not necessarily correct, and y'all who believe staff are prioritizing the angry motorist voices over good planning incorrectly should contact Regional councillors to let them know what you think. Regional Council can easily tell them that the proposal is unacceptable, and to make it work with fewer lanes.

Also possible to go present at the committee meeting on Tuesday as I plan to do.  Frankly, I'd rather see the "do nothing" plan than the current recommended plan, but I plan on asking council to endorse the original "recommended" plan, or a MUT for the entire length, not sure which yet.

RE: Cycling in Waterloo Region - Canard - 08-21-2017