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+--- Thread: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF (/showthread.php?tid=19)
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - jgsz - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 09:53 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Rail feasibility study?
There was some talk about building a GO station in Breslau. If they could bring the station a bit further south it could serve the airport. An intriguing idea for now...
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - Canard - 09-24-2018
APM! APM! APM!
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - SammyOES - 09-24-2018
I don't see how you could make a Breslau Go station serve the airport directly. The airport is obviously not moving. And shifting the rail way down to it seems really impractical and unlikely. If you had significant traffic (both Go and the airport) you could probably make the case for a direct link between the two. But that feels like 25-50 years away at best. Although, maybe that's the timeline they're looking at?
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - Spokes - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 10:05 AM)jgsz Wrote:(09-24-2018, 09:53 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: Rail feasibility study?
There was some talk about building a GO station in Breslau. If they could bring the station a bit further south it could serve the airport. An intriguing idea for now...
Isn't there one at Shantz Station? Or proposed?
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - KevinL - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 12:53 PM)Spokes Wrote:(09-24-2018, 10:05 AM)jgsz Wrote: There was some talk about building a GO station in Breslau. If they could bring the station a bit further south it could serve the airport. An intriguing idea for now...
Isn't there one at Shantz Station? Or proposed?
Greenhouse Road, officially. But a spur or other connection (possibly an APM to make Canard happy) from that station would work.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - jgsz - 09-24-2018
I would be happy if someone told me what an APM was.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - KevinL - 09-24-2018
Automated People Mover. The inter-terminal 'LINK' train at Pearson is the closest example.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - ijmorlan - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 03:19 PM)KevinL Wrote: Automated People Mover. The inter-terminal 'LINK' train at Pearson is the closest example.
I have to say that in this context I think something that is an integral part of a larger network would be better than a purpose-specific GO-to-YKF service. For example, LRT from the GO line, down through the airport, and on into Cambridge, hooking up with ION Phase 2 and the (hypothetical) LRT to Guelph.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - tomh009 - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 04:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(09-24-2018, 03:19 PM)KevinL Wrote: Automated People Mover. The inter-terminal 'LINK' train at Pearson is the closest example.
I have to say that in this context I think something that is an integral part of a larger network would be better than a purpose-specific GO-to-YKF service. For example, LRT from the GO line, down through the airport, and on into Cambridge, hooking up with ION Phase 2 and the (hypothetical) LRT to Guelph.
Yes, that does sound much nicer … but that would be a far bigger project, with a much less clear payback than an APM/shuttle service from a GO station to the airport.
Of course, a GRT bus route running from downtown, with a stop at the GO station, and then the airport, would also be an integral part of a larger network!
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - ijmorlan - 09-24-2018
(09-24-2018, 04:53 PM)tomh009 Wrote:(09-24-2018, 04:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: I have to say that in this context I think something that is an integral part of a larger network would be better than a purpose-specific GO-to-YKF service. For example, LRT from the GO line, down through the airport, and on into Cambridge, hooking up with ION Phase 2 and the (hypothetical) LRT to Guelph.
Yes, that does sound much nicer … but that would be a far bigger project, with a much less clear payback than an APM/shuttle service from a GO station to the airport.
Of course, a GRT bus route running from downtown, with a stop at the GO station, and then the airport, would also be an integral part of a larger network!
The point is, rather than building a difficult-to-expand one-off service, build part of a bigger network. So start with a bus shuttle, with an access directly from Fountain St. into the GO station south of the tracks (rather than looping around via Victoria St.).
Then to enhance capacity, build a single-track LRT with a passing track in the middle and run two vehicles on it. Allow driverless mode by constructing the right of way fully isolated (or wait for automated driving technology to be good enough not to require an isolated right of way — if computers can drive a car on a street with mixed traffic they can certainly, and much more easily, drive a tram with the occasional level crossing). That would allow every 7 minute service, approximately. At this stage, it would be just as good as an APM, but you would be ready for the next step:
Extend the LRT south to Cambridge, connect to the other ION line, and double-track the whole line, also enhancing frequency. This is the part that is more difficult with an APM; or even if done, at some point the question starts to become obtrusive: why build two technologies of higher-order transit in one not-very-big city?
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - tomh009 - 09-24-2018
Fair enough. The bus should be enough at the current flight volumes, but if YKF succeeds in growing, I can see an LRT-based solution making sense. The third step would be far in the future, though, maybe after iON phase 5 or thereabouts.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - jeffster - 09-25-2018
(09-24-2018, 04:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:(09-24-2018, 03:19 PM)KevinL Wrote: Automated People Mover. The inter-terminal 'LINK' train at Pearson is the closest example.
I have to say that in this context I think something that is an integral part of a larger network would be better than a purpose-specific GO-to-YKF service. For example, LRT from the GO line, down through the airport, and on into Cambridge, hooking up with ION Phase 2 and the (hypothetical) LRT to Guelph.
Well...one thing...I'll likely be dead before all that happens.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - Pheidippides - 09-25-2018
I think higher-order transit to the airport is way ahead of its time.
About 128,000 passengers used the local airport in 2016. Pearson averages more than 129,000 every day and 30% more than that on a busy day.
For us that’s about 350 people per day; that’s not even two LRV’s worth of people across an entire day. That also assumes 100% of those even want to take transit; not everyone one wants to or is physically able to haul suitcases on busses and/or trains before/after they get on a flight.
In June 2018 UPX carried 417,000 riders or 13,900 per day. That would be about 10% of the daily passenger load; and I think that UPX is actually used a lot for commuting, not to get to Pearson for travel.
A 10% modal share of our daily passenger load (350) is 35 or half of a GRT bus.
I can see it both ways though; it is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. No one takes transit to the airport because it is currently impossible and in the future will likely at best will be very hard to do, but we don’t build better transit to the airport because no one is taking transit.
I think the best option will be move the proposed Greenhouse Road GO station to be physically located at the airport The proposed location is only 2km from the airport perimeter and about 2.5km from the YKF terminal, and it would build awareness about the airport. Once the entire GO system is on 15-minute headways that is more than enough service for current and future passenger loads at YKF.
You could loop the route back in to central Guelph (red dotted), or by-pass central Guelph for a stop in south Guelph and still hit Acton (purple dotted). Either option probably wouldn’t even add much time to the route (the purple route might even make it faster).
Also, once the Ottawa St is extended to Fountain you can extend the 205 across the river to the airport and either loop down Fountain to Fairway or up to Victoria. Build the new bridge to accommodate LRT and maybe in time a phase of Ion could run across Ottawa to the airport.
At the moment though, it is more efficient to get yourself to the airport (taxi, carpool, ride-share, bike, drive). Maybe WROUTE will start offering to take people from Fairway Station to YKF as part of their service.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - Markster - 09-25-2018
Well keep in mind that this is the (approved!) plan for the GO Breslau station:
https://twitter.com/TriTAG/status/809109604965687296
There is no access from the south side of the station, nor from Fountain.
RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - danbrotherston - 09-25-2018
Transit to the airport comes up all the time, and frankly, I think it's an example of Jarret Walker's elite projection[1]. Folks with cars think about the only time in their life where they might take transit, the airport scores high on this list, so they assume transit to the airport makes perfect sense.
Back here in objective land, the airport doesn't carry even one tenth the passengers necessary to support a standard bus route, let alone higher order transit.
One day, it very well may, but people ask for it today, time and time again...
[1] https://humantransit.org/2017/07/the-dangers-of-elite-projection.html