Waterloo Region Connected
Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - Printable Version

+- Waterloo Region Connected (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com)
+-- Forum: Waterloo Region Works (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Forum: Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF (/showthread.php?tid=19)



RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - tomh009 - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 10:30 AM)jgsz Wrote: Pearson (YYZ) is close but during winter storms or rush hour traffic the drive may take over two hours.  And when you include the mandatory three hour early arrival for international flights we may as well drive to Kingston or Detroit.

Mandatory three hours?  The cutoff time is 60 minutes, at least for Air Canada; of course you should plan to be there somewhat earlier.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/airport/checkin.html

The challenge for YKF is that we are so close to YYZ.  It doesn't make sense to do connections to YYZ, and yet there is not enough traffic to warrant a meaningful frequency of point-to-point flights to a substantial set of destinations.  And if you have a once-or-twice-a-week flight to New York or San Francisco, for example, few people (flying for work) will choose that over getting a huge selection of flights from YYZ.

YXU has some more flights (including connections to YYZ) but then London is two hours plus away from any larger airport by car. Our situation is still much better, at least from my perspective.  (One hour is not much different than the time people on the east side of GTA need to get to the airport.)


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - chutten - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 10:30 AM)jgsz Wrote: What do we have to do to get more airlines and more destinations?

Start an airline?

Blackmail Air Canada's CEO?

Convince our MP to fight for it politically?

...my responses may highlight my opinion that the problem is more political than technical, but there's no doubt something actually missing on that front, too. I've not flown into or out of Hamilton or Edmonton, but all of Toronto, Ottawa, and Calgary have bigger terminals, more parking, taller towers, and longer runways.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - panamaniac - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 10:51 AM)chutten Wrote:
(07-21-2015, 10:30 AM)jgsz Wrote: What do we have to do to get more airlines and more destinations?

Start an airline?

Blackmail Air Canada's CEO?

Convince our MP to fight for it politically?

...my responses may highlight my opinion that the problem is more political than technical, but there's no doubt something actually missing on that front, too. I've not flown into or out of Hamilton or Edmonton, but all of Toronto, Ottawa, and Calgary have bigger terminals, more parking, taller towers, and longer runways.

In one case, you'd need to get the MP to stop contemplating when life begins and constantly sending out junk mail at public expense to pay attention to the need to support something like an airport.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - tomh009 - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 10:51 AM)chutten Wrote:
(07-21-2015, 10:30 AM)jgsz Wrote: What do we have to do to get more airlines and more destinations?

Convince our MP to fight for it politically?

...my responses may highlight my opinion that the problem is more political than technical, but there's no doubt something actually missing on that front, too.

It's not really a political problem: politicians can't dictate airlines' routes or schedules.  This is fundamentally a business problem, how can YKF routes work from a business perspective, which in depends on creating a demand in order to fill planes.  The costs of flying from YKF will already be far lower than YYZ, so it's really a revenue problem: flying empty planes is not a good business.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - chutten - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 11:24 AM)tomh009 Wrote: It's not really a political problem: politicians can't dictate airlines' routes or schedules. 

Sorry, I was representing problems as simply a combination of two factors: technical and political. Technical meaning "is it not impossible or infeasible" and political meaning "is it just that there are people's opinions or beliefs in the way of it being done".

Sort of like wind farms out by Port Perry. No technical obstacles, just the politics of trying to convince people that "Industrial Wind Turbines" aren't the bugbears the local signage makes them out to be.

This is a non-standard usage of politics and I should've clarified or chosen a different term.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - ookpik - 07-21-2015

Or in the alternative, if YKF is too small or too close to YYZ, etc. then why aren't there better transportation options between here and there?
1. Regular bus service, say hourly? If Airways Transit won't do it then maybe a GO bus.
2. GO train? (The existing line runs about 1km from YYZ. Either add a spur line or a shuttle service. And of course we'd need hourly service.)

Surely these options are less expensive than expansion of YKF and probably quicker to implement, especially 1.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - BuildingScout - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 01:15 PM)ookpik Wrote: Surely these options are less expensive than expansion of YKF and probably quicker to implement, especially 1.

To the contrary, YYZ is bursting at the seems and expansion there is way more expensive than expansion at YKF.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - tomh009 - 07-21-2015

GO Train with an Air Canada check-in kiosk at the new transit centre sounds like a great idea.  Shuttle service from a nearby station should be easy to do.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - jgsz - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 01:15 PM)ookpik Wrote: Or in the alternative, if YKF is too small or too close to YYZ, etc. then why aren't there better transportation options between here and there?
1. Regular bus service, say hourly? If Airways Transit won't do it then maybe a GO bus.
2. GO train? (The existing line runs about 1km from YYZ. Either add a spur line or a shuttle service. And of course we'd need hourly service.)

Surely these options are less expensive than expansion of YKF and probably quicker to implement, especially 1.

Direct trains or buses to YYZ would be helpful especially if they were less expensive than Airways Transit.  But they would be awkward if you have more than a carry on.  The only time I took a train from an airport was in Amsterdam and those trains were designed to accommodate luggage and people and that worked well.  It was also a lot cheaper than a taxi.   


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - chutten - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 01:49 PM)jgsz Wrote: Direct trains or buses to YYZ would be helpful especially if they were less expensive than Airways Transit.  But they would be awkward if you have more than a carry on.  The only time I took a train from an airport was in Amsterdam and those trains were designed to accommodate luggage and people and that worked well.  It was also a lot cheaper than a taxi.   

I've taken the train in from Narita (to Tokyo) and it is similarly set up more like the old long-distance trains with baggage areas in each car than the short-distancers like, say, Paris' RER. Or subway, like London's Underground (though those cars are similarly adapted for their luggage-heavy use).

Come to think of it, Narita to Shinagawa's only 20km shorter than Waterloo to YYZ (by car)...


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - ookpik - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 01:45 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: To the contrary, YYZ is bursting at the seems and expansion there is way more expensive than expansion at YKF.
It seems you meant "seams" Wink

In any case, YYZ is a relatively small airport compared to the hubs of other G-7 countries.

One reason why expansion at YKF is impractical from a business standpoint is due the immense benefit and value of flying through a hub. My suggestion to improve transportation between here and YYZ reflects that. Construction of the new airport in Pickering was also shelved for similar reasons. And that was despite massive federal financial backing.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - ookpik - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 01:49 PM)jgsz Wrote: Direct trains or buses to YYZ would be... awkward if you have more than a carry on.  The only time I took a train from an airport was in Amsterdam and those trains were designed to accommodate luggage and people and that worked well.  It was also a lot cheaper than a taxi.
I always use bus or train between European airports and my ultimate destination. Most trains and buses are designed to accommodate passengers with luggage. In the case of ROW to YYZ shuttle bus service I'd expect the vehicles to be designed for purpose not the standard double-decker GO bus.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - tomh009 - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 01:45 PM)BuildingScout Wrote:
(07-21-2015, 01:15 PM)ookpik Wrote: Surely these options are less expensive than expansion of YKF and probably quicker to implement, especially 1.

To the contrary, YYZ is bursting at the seems and expansion there is way more expensive than expansion at YKF.

Bursting at the seams?  Certainly not.  There were 32M pax last year, with a capacity of 35M (21M for T1 and 14M for T3).  There is another 4M of overflow capacity by using the infield terminal (currently not in use since the last phase of T1 was completed).  The next T1 expansion is slated to open about 2020, and will bring the airport capacity to over 50M pax.

And in addition to that, expansion at YKF (or YHM, or YXU) is no substitute for YYZ capacity.


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - BuildingScout - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 02:33 PM)tomh009 Wrote: And in addition to that, expansion at YKF (or YHM, or YXU) is no substitute for YYZ capacity.

I don't follow. Stanstead, Gatwick and Luton have expanded to relieve pressure from Heathrow. Why would the same effect not apply here for YYZ?


RE: Region of Waterloo International Airport - YKF - BuildingScout - 07-21-2015

(07-21-2015, 02:19 PM)ookpik Wrote: One reason why expansion at YKF is impractical from a business standpoint is due the immense benefit and value of flying through a hub.

Sure, one will never fly YKF-Singapore direct, but why exactly we cannot have direct flights to Calgary, Vancouver, New York, Chicago, Dublin and San Francisco? I bet the demand is there.