Waterloo Region Connected
High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - Printable Version

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RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - KevinL - 04-16-2018

(04-16-2018, 12:04 PM)Canard Wrote:
(04-16-2018, 11:18 AM)KevinL Wrote: Not built, but well into its design and assessment, all of which are based around a standard rail model. Emphasis on standard.

Oh?  My mistake, I thought a designer hadn't even been selected yet.

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, but even at this early stage we all know the impossibility of getting the region and province to get anything other than heavy rail serving that station. Any other option is simply not in the cards.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - Canard - 04-16-2018

Yup, I know. Which is why I said it’s futile for me to even consider that anyone at any level would have an open mind about it. Same thing happened with Light Rail. There were just no other options seriously explored.

The world forgot how to dream about 20 years ago.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - panamaniac - 04-16-2018

(04-16-2018, 10:17 AM)KevinL Wrote:
(04-16-2018, 09:09 AM)Canard Wrote: We're talking about building hundreds of kilometres of completely new track and OCS.  The very small amount of infra that could be reused (which I doubt is realistically anything at all) is not worth considering.  You really think a TGV is going to pull up to Kitchener's 100+ year old station?

No, but one could pull into the transit hub we're already planning to build.

Isn't that already the plan, or is the new platform only intended for GO trains?


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - ijmorlan - 04-16-2018

(04-16-2018, 01:39 PM)panamaniac Wrote:
(04-16-2018, 10:17 AM)KevinL Wrote: No, but one could pull into the transit hub we're already planning to build.

Isn't that already the plan, or is the new platform only intended for GO trains?

I believe it is the plan, to the extent that an HSR plan actually exists at this point.

But the GO train comment is on point. A 2- or 3-platform station can handle GO, Via, and HSR, unless we start running way more trains than anybody is discussing — 3 platforms should be able to handle at least 18 trains an hour (10 minutes is more than enough time for a train to arrive, unload, load, and depart).

If we replace the HSR by maglev, the main station stays exactly the same, but we have to find space for maglev platforms elsewhere. Now, they could be above or below, not necessarily somewhere else geographically, but suddenly it is a significantly more complicated station. Also, the infrastructure cannot evolve as it can for HSR. Initially, HSR could travel down Kent St. in Guelph exactly as it is to the existing station, at the speeds currently used by GO trains. Of course, I would hope that they would at least upgrade the tracks so they could go a little faster than now even in that area, but the point is that the existing infrastructure can be used here and there where running slowly gets around a significant problem.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - tomh009 - 04-16-2018

(04-16-2018, 02:15 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: Initially, HSR could travel down Kent St. in Guelph exactly as it is to the existing station, at the speeds currently used by GO trains. Of course, I would hope that they would at least upgrade the tracks so they could go a little faster than now even in that area, but the point is that the existing infrastructure can be used here and there where running slowly gets around a significant problem.

The track in Guelph could eventually be elevated, too, eve without maglev. If we run diesel, or diesel-hybrid, or (someday in the future) fuel cell, we don't need the catenaries, either, which would reduce construction costs substantially. VIA could start HrSR service with their current locomotives, or even something readily (and inexpensively) available such as the MP54AC used by GO.

The challenge with all-new tech such as maglev is the massive investment to do anything: totally new elevated track, elevated stations, and obviously maglev trains. With our currently low levels of train ridership (yes, we all know it's largely because of the current service levels) it would likely be politically impossible to get approval to spend maybe $30B+ for a maglev line.

So while maglev is fantastic, today's governments are perennially cash-strapped and massive infrastructure spend like this is extremely unlikely. On the other hand, the incremental approach of HrSR or conventional HSR could work.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - Canard - 04-16-2018

Just pointing out with HSR we are already talking about new track, stations and trains.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - tomh009 - 04-16-2018

(04-14-2018, 02:01 PM)kps Wrote: On the current route it's 102 km (sigh) to Union Station. From Kitchener let's stop in Breslau, Guelph, Rockwood (hey, why not?), Acton (seriously, why not?), Georgetown, Brampton, Malton/YYZ (at 77 km) and then express to Union. So: Kitchener–YYZ: 46 minutes. Kitchener–Toronto: 59 minutes. Who would take that over driving? (Click to reveal answer)

Following up on this calculation, let's use the same assumptions:
  • HrSR (150 km/h): 59 minutes
  • HSR (250 km/h): 43 minutes
  • maglev (400 km/h): 34 minutes

Again, maglev is fantastic. But in southern Ontario, is it justifiable in order to save 25 minutes from the Kitchener-Toronto travel time?

Personally, while the cool factor is not there, I would be very, very happy with reasonably frequent HrSR service with a top speed in the 150-200 km/h range. Especially if we could address the travel times through central Guelph.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - timio - 04-16-2018

I'd be very happy with hourly trains making the trip to Union in 60-75 minutes, rather than 115-130 as we have it today.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - clasher - 04-16-2018

Maglev would be wicked if went from Chicago to Quebec City.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - chutten - 04-16-2018

I'd even take today's 115-130 if I could trust it to run on schedule. The 0915 Via hasn't left earlier than 0930 for me. And it doesn't make up any time on its way to Union, losing another five minutes. It's getting to be that I can trust its delay, but as soon as I do it will run on time in a fit of pique.

I would love to see cool tech used for public transportation. Think of the press! The opening would be an event. People would ride it just to ride it.

Unfortunately the purse strings aren't held by people with dreams of aught but re-election or pension, which rewards small or no change asked of the populace.

So what we have is either a hope for unreasonable (Venture Capital or better) private fortunes to come and "save" us (by using us as the product they would sell, most likely); or hope that someone manages to make it to the purse strings and push an imaginative plan far enough that the ones who replace them (for they will be replaced) won't be able to stop the plan without outcry.

Canard for Minister of Transportation 2018?


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - Bob_McBob - 05-04-2018

https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/comments/8gx0oi/if_you_believe_highspeed_rail_is_attainable_now/


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - bgb_ca - 05-04-2018

That one guy that posted with the mentality of "I'll never use it so why should we build it" annoys me.


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - Square - 02-17-2019

I guess Ontario is not the only place with problems : https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/15/18224717/california-high-speed-rail-canceled


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - plam - 02-17-2019

(02-17-2019, 12:37 PM)Square Wrote: I guess Ontario is not the only place with problems : https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/15/18224717/california-high-speed-rail-canceled

They're still building the Central California segment. We'll see what happens with the rest of it...


RE: High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London - KevinL - 02-17-2019

I get the logistical reason for starting in the central segment, but I think having visible construction progress in some bigger cities would have given the project more public support. As it stands it's a victim of ridicule; 'tracks to nowhere', etc.