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General Road and Highway Discussion - Printable Version

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RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Bytor - 11-17-2021

Trains before Lanes

https://www.therecord.com/opinion/2021/11/17/trains-before-lanes-new-highway-7-and-other-road-projects-wont-address-climate-change.html


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - danbrotherston - 11-19-2021

Even drivers should prefer bike infra.

How do we get past the human inability to understand things like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k&ab_channel=NotJustBikes


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - ijmorlan - 11-20-2021

(11-19-2021, 07:17 PM)danbrotherston Wrote: Even drivers should prefer bike infra.

How do we get past the human inability to understand things like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k&ab_channel=NotJustBikes

Excellent video! If we could get our traffic engineers to take it to heart I think we would see significant improvement even without any official change in approach.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Bob_McBob - 11-27-2021

The camera in Winterbourne finally has the metal plate removed, but I don't know about the Guelph Ave one in Cambridge. I've still seen no evidence they are actually operating, but I'm not sure if they're supposed to flash like the one by Laurentian PS which is confirmed to be operating.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - GtwoK - 11-29-2021

Genuinely not sure where to ask this so I'll ask it here:

I haven't been able to find any sort of bylaw that regulates this, but I can't shake the feeling that it exists. I'm look at buying a house in Kitchener, and it's a corner lot. The parking is currently accessed from the side of the house, and extends into the backyard. I don't like how little backyard that leaves the house with. However, the front yard has ample space for 2 cars.

I know I can apply for a permit to have the curb cut to move the driveway to the front of the house, but given that it's a. corner lot, I'm worried theres something regulating the distance the driveway needs to be from an intersection that would prevent me from doing this.

[Image: ZoXTPgG.png]

The yellow line here shows that it would be ~7m from the street-abutting edge of the property to the start of the driveway (and a bit more to the actual street). Does anyone know if this is allowed, or is this the reason that most corner properties have their parking around the side?


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - highlander - 11-30-2021

(11-29-2021, 05:23 PM)GtwoK Wrote: Genuinely not sure where to ask this so I'll ask it here:

I haven't been able to find any sort of bylaw that regulates this, but I can't shake the feeling that it exists. I'm look at buying a house in Kitchener, and it's a corner lot. The parking is currently accessed from the side of the house, and extends into the backyard. I don't like how little backyard that leaves the house with. However, the front yard has ample space for 2 cars.

I know I can apply for a permit to have the curb cut to move the driveway to the front of the house, but given that it's a. corner lot, I'm worried theres something regulating the distance the driveway needs to be from an intersection that would prevent me from doing this.

The yellow line here shows that it would be ~7m from the street-abutting edge of the property to the start of the driveway (and a bit more to the actual street). Does anyone know if this is allowed, or is this the reason that most corner properties have their parking around the side?

This is covered in section 6 of the zoning by-law: Section 6 - Off-Street Parking and Off-Street Loading.pdf

IANAL but I think 6.1.1.1 c) iii) on p5 prohibits what you are asking for.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - GtwoK - 11-30-2021

(11-30-2021, 01:31 PM)highlander Wrote:
(11-29-2021, 05:23 PM)GtwoK Wrote: Genuinely not sure where to ask this so I'll ask it here:

I haven't been able to find any sort of bylaw that regulates this, but I can't shake the feeling that it exists. I'm look at buying a house in Kitchener, and it's a corner lot. The parking is currently accessed from the side of the house, and extends into the backyard. I don't like how little backyard that leaves the house with. However, the front yard has ample space for 2 cars.

I know I can apply for a permit to have the curb cut to move the driveway to the front of the house, but given that it's a. corner lot, I'm worried theres something regulating the distance the driveway needs to be from an intersection that would prevent me from doing this.

The yellow line here shows that it would be ~7m from the street-abutting edge of the property to the start of the driveway (and a bit more to the actual street). Does anyone know if this is allowed, or is this the reason that most corner properties have their parking around the side?

This is covered in section 6 of the zoning by-law: Section 6 - Off-Street Parking and Off-Street Loading.pdf

IANAL but I think 6.1.1.1 c) iii) on p5 prohibits what you are asking for.

Thank for this! Seems to cover exactly what I was looking for.

The clause mentions "[...] a corner lot an access driveway shall not be located closer than 9.0 metres to the intersection of the street lines abutting the lot." Would anyone happen to know what "street lines" are defined as? Is the the lot line? The edge of the driveable street (not including sidewalk)? Or is it the centerline of the street?

The short line is the minimum width of a driveway (2.6m), the medium line to the lot edge is under the minimum distance (7.8m), and the long line to the street edge is acceptable (9.8m)

[Image: apQXm2r.png]


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - danbrotherston - 11-30-2021

This is a good question given that some of our residential streets have turning radii in the dozens of meters.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - ijmorlan - 11-30-2021

I believe the street line is the curb — the edge of the driveable street; but I have an idea that it continues straight at intersections rather than following the turn radius.

This is based on an old recollection of reading the bylaw (in the Region of Ottawa) which defined where stop signs are supposed to be, and in addition to many specific stop signs (“northbound on X St. at Y Ave.”), it gave what I think were called rights of way, something like “Preston St. from the north street line of Carling Ave. to the south street line of Scott St.”, which would mean that any street intersecting Preston St. between Carling and Scott would have a stop sign.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Bytor - 12-02-2021

(11-30-2021, 07:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: I believe the street line is the curb — the edge of the driveable street; but I have an idea that it continues straight at intersections rather than following the turn radius.

This is based on an old recollection of reading the bylaw (in the Region of Ottawa) which defined where stop signs are supposed to be, and in addition to many specific stop signs (“northbound on X St. at Y Ave.”), it gave what I think were called rights of way, something like “Preston St. from the north street line of Carling Ave. to the south street line of Scott St.”, which would mean that any street intersecting Preston St. between Carling and Scott would have a stop sign.

Wouldn't the "street" line follow the actual edge of the right of way, which includes the possible boulevard, plus the sidewalk, plus a bit more yet beyond just the curb? In the zoning codes I believe the minimum setbacks are defined as from teh edge of your property, not the curb of the road.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - ijmorlan - 12-02-2021

(12-02-2021, 01:54 PM)Bytor Wrote:
(11-30-2021, 07:48 PM)ijmorlan Wrote: I believe the street line is the curb — the edge of the driveable street; but I have an idea that it continues straight at intersections rather than following the turn radius.

This is based on an old recollection of reading the bylaw (in the Region of Ottawa) which defined where stop signs are supposed to be, and in addition to many specific stop signs (“northbound on X St. at Y Ave.”), it gave what I think were called rights of way, something like “Preston St. from the north street line of Carling Ave. to the south street line of Scott St.”, which would mean that any street intersecting Preston St. between Carling and Scott would have a stop sign.

Wouldn't the "street" line follow the actual edge of the right of way, which includes the possible boulevard, plus the sidewalk, plus a bit more yet beyond just the curb? In the zoning codes I believe the minimum setbacks are defined as from teh edge of your property, not the curb of the road.

That is also possible. Where I believe I saw the term was in a situation where what matters is the actual edge of the road, regardless of where the property boundary is; and one can imagine that driveway placement would similarly be based on where the road is rather than the property boundary.

That being said, you’re right that zoning setbacks are based on property boundaries, and it’s been a long time so I might be remembering completely wrong in the first place.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Bob_McBob - 12-11-2021

Without checking, based on your observations of other drivers, how many distracted driving charges would you estimate WRPS laid on average in 2019-2020?


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - jeffster - 12-11-2021

(12-11-2021, 01:51 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Without checking, based on your observations of other drivers, how many distracted driving charges would you estimate WRPS laid on average in 2019-2020?

Not enough, as there are still plenty of people driving with eyes on their cell phones, especially females and construction dudes in their pick-up trucks.

I know of a handful of people (all girls, actually) that have been charged with distracted driving. However, they were all stopped at stop signs or red lights. So while I get why they were charged, technically, in a stopped vehicle, you're at a very low risk of causing an accident. The one was charged for looking at her Apple Watch (because she was scrolling the watch).

So without looking, maybe 2-3,000.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - danbrotherston - 12-11-2021

(12-11-2021, 03:49 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(12-11-2021, 01:51 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Without checking, based on your observations of other drivers, how many distracted driving charges would you estimate WRPS laid on average in 2019-2020?

Not enough, as there are still plenty of people driving with eyes on their cell phones, especially females and construction dudes in their pick-up trucks.

I know of a handful of people (all girls, actually) that have been charged with distracted driving. However, they were all stopped at stop signs or red lights. So while I get why they were charged, technically, in a stopped vehicle, you're at a very low risk of causing an accident. The one was charged for looking at her Apple Watch (because she was scrolling the watch).

So without looking, maybe 2-3,000.

Certainly not enough, in fact, I'd go so far as to say the number of drivers WRPS charged has almost nothing to do with how many drivers are distracted and instead how much WPRS has chosen to spend on enforcement (for whatever motivation). I'd bet money I've seen more distracted drivers this year, than WRPS has ticketed...I see many daily...I'm easily into the 1000s. Hell, that includes more than a few WRPS officers.

As for distracted drivers at a stop sign, don't know about the specific example you have, but I know a few things, most drivers I hear claim to only text at lights, are in fact distracted while driving to the light. How do I know, because I saw them on their phones approaching the light, and it's really scary to hear that a driver didn't even know they passed a cyclist.

And even leaving that aside, drivers distracted at lights are still a hazard, even leaving aside vehicles with massive front end blindspots, driving is about maintaining situation awareness, you lose that when you are on your phone. You look up, see a green light, and pull away, but lots of things can still go wrong. The most personal example was a driver who looked up, stepped on the gas, but had their steering wheel turned slightly right, and pulled into the bike lane...with me in it.

So yeah, when you're driving, you have only one task. Driving.


RE: General Road and Highway Discussion - Bob_McBob - 12-11-2021

The answer is an average of 671.5 charges per year from 2019-2020, or fewer than 2 distracted driving tickets per day. Despite an uptick in speeding charges due to Covid downtime, distracted driving charges fell to an all-time low of only 637 in 2020. That's down from thousands when the law was first introduced. It's also my impression many of these charges are for stopped vehicles since it's convenient for WRPS officers to observe drivers, which is of course the least dangerous form of this behaviour. Apparently charges are up in 2021, but not much, and the annual total won't be known until August 2022.

Here are the updated speeding ticket numbers including the 2020 annual report. I don't have older numbers for distracted driving because WRPS won't provide more than 3 years of annual reports, but it's possible to dig it up like I did with the speeding numbers.

2015 - 13,509
2016 - 11,473
2017 - 11,714
2018 - 8,847
2019 - 7,250
2020 - 10,189