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General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Printable Version

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RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - BuildingScout - 03-06-2015

(03-06-2015, 12:07 PM)Spokes Wrote: Definitely a unique look.

If memory serves, aren't some of the interior finishes protected under heritage designation.  

I hope nothing above the ground floor. We had a guest staying there a few years back and helped him with the luggage. I thought the place was dreary: dark, sagging floors, worn carpet, ugly furniture, empty rooms.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Spokes - 03-06-2015

(03-06-2015, 12:16 PM)BuildingScout Wrote:
(03-06-2015, 12:07 PM)Spokes Wrote: Definitely a unique look.

If memory serves, aren't some of the interior finishes protected under heritage designation.  

I hope nothing above the ground floor. We had a guest staying there a few years back and helped him with the luggage. I thought the place was dreary: dark, sagging floors, worn carpet, ugly furniture, empty rooms.

I believe it was mostly, if not all, on the main floor.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - MacBerry - 03-06-2015

(03-06-2015, 12:07 PM)Spokes Wrote:
(03-06-2015, 10:42 AM)panamaniac Wrote: The Walper has been closed since the beginning of January for a renovation that's supposed to last at least six months.  That model suite is much more contemporary than I would have gone (although the bathroom looks great) - I hope the public areas will retain their historic charm.  I am also hoping that the old Barristers Lounge will be turned into another "adult drinking establishment".

Definitely a unique look.

If memory serves, aren't some of the interior finishes protected under heritage designation.  

I don't believe you can designate "interiors" as heritage unless I missed an amendment to the act. 

Anyone?


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - panamaniac - 03-07-2015

Today's Record has a piece on the future of the Schneiders lands (25 acres).   Nothing specific, except that redevelopment is more likely than industrial use, which was no secret.  My own wish list would see more than one developer working on the site (no Barrel Yards, thanks!), an uncovering and re-naturalizing of the creek under the site and the extension of Borden Parkway to Courtland Ave, mid-rise residential along Borden west of Courtland, and a proper pedestrian walkway connecting the site to the Mill ion station.  



Future is bright for Schneiders land in heart of Kitchener
March 7, 2015 | Greg Mercer | The Record | LINK



Quote:KITCHENER — The Schneiders plant may have produced its last slice of luncheon meat, but city officials and developers believe the property has a bright future — as redeveloped land at the heart of a community in transformation.

Counting two nearby parking lots, the now-closed Courtland Avenue site is a rare find in the middle of the city: almost 25 acres of land near downtown, ideal for mixed-use commercial and residential infill development, with two planned rapid transit stations within walking distance.

"A site of this size is extremely rare," said Karl Innanen, managing director of Colliers' Waterloo Region commercial real estate office.

"It'll bring in national investors, and certainly large regional and Toronto-based investors to come out and take a look at it."

When company founder J.M. Schneider built the plant for $200,000 in 1924 on what was then the outskirts of the city, he worried he'd never produce enough business to fill it.

Today, the city has grown up and around the old plant and the property is worth millions. For developers, it's an opportunity to pack a lot of condos and apartments near a coming rapid transit line that will need people to live close by, all with the support of a municipality that wants to increase density in its core.

The Schneiders site is also big enough to be a catalyst that changes the whole neighbourhood, Innanen said — a makeover that could take some of the sting out of the 1,200 jobs lost when the plant closed.

"It's like getting in on a subway stop back when the Toronto subway system was being developed," he said. "For developers, it's seen as something they want to get in on the ground floor on."

The mayor is confident about the future of the property, too, but cautions the transformation could take years.

"I'm very optimistic, very bullish on what the future holds for that site. But don't expect it to happen overnight," said Kitchener Mayor Berry Vrbanovic.

"It has the potential to become the model live-work space in our community. It could become a very dynamic piece of real estate."

Maple Leafs Foods will spend the next six weeks decommissioning the site. This week, the first shipment of liquid ammonia, used in the plant's giant refrigerators, was trucked away from the site.

Crews will dig up and remove two diesel tanks buried in the backyard and pack up equipment for other Maple Leaf plants. A public, online auction at the end of April will clear out the rest of the unwanted furniture and supplies left behind.

It's expected the property could be on the market by the fall.

"The plan is to sell it for real estate value. It's unlikely it'll be sold as a manufacturing facility," said Dave Bauer, spokesperson for Maple Leaf. "We'll be listening to offers when the time is right. But at this point, it's too early to tell."

While it's been a processing plant for 90 years, it's believed the site has little to no contamination, another attractive feature for developers.

Jeff Willmer, Kitchener's chief administrative officer, said the neighbourhood around the Courtland Avenue plant has changed so much since the 1920s that it's no longer an ideal site for manufacturing or other industrial work.

Instead, the city believes the future of the site is in mixed residential and commercial uses — which could include townhomes, condos, grocery store, shops, offices and more. With two light rail transit station planned within a few blocks of the property, planners think it could become the centrepiece of an evolving "urban village" in the former industrial area.

"It's a wonderful redevelopment opportunity. In the long term, it's got a lot of potential. It's a very large property, it's close to rapid transit, and it's within the city's central neighbourhood," Willmer said. "I can't think of very many other properties like it."

The value is in the land, he said. The site's processing plant is so old and outdated it's widely thought to be obsolete.

"I'd be surprised if a buyer could use that building for something, just given the state of the disrepair," said Dennis Lesperance, president of the Schneiders Employees Association.

"It's an old, tired building. It's like a 20-year-old car. You can invest a lot of money into it, but it won't be worth any more."

Other parts of the Schneiders site, including the office tower and cold storage facility, might still have some short-term value to another company, Willmer said. But the land's industrial value has passed.

"Inner city industrial areas probably aren't the most effective industrial areas. They don't have good highway access and they aren't all that compatible with residential neighbours," Willmer said.

Innanen sees little interest in preserving the old factory for reuse as condos or tech startup space, like the Kaufman Lofts, Seagrams Lofts or Tannery projects. Instead, he suspects developers will want to demolish the building and have a clean slate.

"My gut is someone will want to start from scratch," Innanen said. "The Slaughterhouse Lofts doesn't have the same cache. Those buildings have a lot of challenges with them, and I don't see any of them having that same character."

To help speed up redevelopment, the city already started work that would eventually rezone the site, as part of a larger planning study to map growth in key neighbourhoods that will be changed by rapid transit.

"That will lay the groundwork for Maple Leaf or, much more likely, a future owner of the property," the chief administrator said.

Plant manager Rick Larose is overseeing the decommissioning process inside the plant with the help of about two dozen employees. It's strange emptying out a place he's worked at for 41 years, he said.

"It's eerie quiet. You walk around and you don't hear that hum anymore," he said. "But we're on track to get everything out of the factory in time."

Vrbanovic said he wants the transition to happen as quickly as possible. Lesperance said he just hopes the property doesn't sit idle for too long, waiting for that change to come.

"When you drive by in June and you see the fence up and the unkempt grass and maybe a few broken windows, it'll be so sad because you knew what it once was."



RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - clasher - 03-07-2015

I too would think selling it to one developer would be a huge mistake. Hopefully the city steps up to the plate with zoning and whatnot so that some real city-building can happen.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - BuildingScout - 03-07-2015

(03-07-2015, 08:45 AM)panamaniac Wrote: My own wish list would see more than one developer working on the site (no Barrel Yards, thanks!),

Care to elaborate why? I'm not enamored with the Barrel Yards people but are they really worse than Mady, Schembri, etc?


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 03-07-2015

I spent the better part of a year working there as a student, way back in the 80s. It wasn't particularly nice back then and even less so now. It'll be great to see it redeveloped.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - panamaniac - 03-07-2015

(03-07-2015, 01:24 PM)BuildingScout Wrote:
(03-07-2015, 08:45 AM)panamaniac Wrote: My own wish list would see more than one developer working on the site (no Barrel Yards, thanks!),

Care to elaborate why? I'm not enamored with the Barrel Yards people but are they really worse than Mady, Schembri, etc?

I feel that such a large site would benefit from the vision of more than a single developer.  I would hope that multiple developers might contribute to a more urban feel overall.  I assume, however, that selling the site as a single parcel could maximize Maple Leaf's return. 


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 03-07-2015

Multiple developers would also reduce the risk of failure or major delay of the entire project -- although increase the risk that some part of it would be delayed.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Spokes - 03-08-2015

(03-06-2015, 03:24 PM)MacBerry Wrote:
(03-06-2015, 12:07 PM)Spokes Wrote: Definitely a unique look.

If memory serves, aren't some of the interior finishes protected under heritage designation.  

I don't believe you can designate "interiors" as heritage unless I missed an amendment to the act. 

Anyone?

You definitely can if they're specified.  I was talking to the manager at Coffee Culture once right after they opened and he was talking about some of the finishes that had to be left due to heritage designation.  I believe the floors and ceiling were part of that.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Spokes - 03-08-2015

(03-07-2015, 11:40 AM)clasher Wrote: I too would think selling it to one developer would be a huge mistake. Hopefully the city steps up to the plate with zoning and whatnot so that some real city-building can happen.

To do that though they would have to subdivide the property which would be unlikely.  Why would they pay to do that?

The more likely scenario is to list the parking lots separately.  


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - rangersfan - 03-08-2015

Looks like 5 Michael st, Kitchener could become an office for a local tech company.


old article:

Heritage building offered up for potential high-tech use
June 17, 2011 |  Rose Simone | The Record | LINK



Quote:KITCHENER — The owners of another turn-of-the-century heritage building in downtown Kitchener have decided to sell or lease it for potential high-tech or professional office uses.

Bill Labron, co-owner with Lynn McRuer of 5 Michael St., says with the Tannery high-tech office space about two blocks away filling up quickly, he has been getting expressions of interest in the building.

Labron and McRuer run Music Plus Corp., which sells sheet music, books and instruments, and the Beckett School of music from the building. Both are thriving businesses, “but there are a lot of places where we can do what we do,” Labron says.

Labron says he had already been thinking about other locations for the Beckett school because it now has 1,500 students a week and continues to grow. The school already has a satellite location in Pioneer Park.

“So realistically, we will need to look at a larger location or a different location,” he says.

Darren Shaw of DTZ Barnicke, the real estate firm handling the listing, says that with just over 31,000 square feet of space, the Michael Street building is perfect for a medium-sized high-tech company, or engineering or marketing firm with perhaps between 100 to 150 employees.

There are about 40 parking spaces on the site and some on-street parking, and it is close to the transit routes, making it attractive to a number of businesses, he says.

It is the type of building the technology sector is interested in right now, he adds.

The brick and beam building with large windows and a working historic elevator was built by Charles Ahrens in 1910 to house the Ahrens Shoe Co.

In the 1970s, it became a Greb factory outlet shoe store and from 1979 to 1999, it was the home of the Cline Shirt Co., a shirt manufacturer.

When Labron and McRuer bought the factory in 2000, they completely renovated the inside while keeping heritage features such as the wooden pillars and posts, beams and floor boards.

They were among the first in the city to get into the “adaptive reuse” of an old industrial space that they converted into a “talent factory” for budding musicians.

Now, the timing is right for a different owner or user to continue the building’s history, Labron says.

“We have had a huge development going on in this part of the city, and with the new transit hub coming on, there is tremendous excitement in terms people wanting to be here.”




Whitney Real Estate Services currently has a lighting for this building, which can be viewed here.

There is a City of Kitchener Planning & Strategic Initiatives Committee report from Feb 2, 2015 that details a zoning change application for 5 Michael St.


Quote:RECOMMENDATION: That Zone Change Application ZC14/08/M/KA for 1397036 Ontario Ltd. for the purpose of changing the zoning from Neighbourhood Institutional Zone (I-2) with Special Use Provision 281U to Neighbourhood Institutional Zone (I-2) with amended Special Use Provision 281U be approved in the form shown in the “Proposed By-law” dated December 18, 2014 attached to Report CSD-15-005 as Appendix ‘A’.

REPORT: he subject lands are located at 5 Michael Street which is located a block outside of the boundary of the downtown. The site currently contains a music retail store and music school. The owner of the site has entered into an agreement of purchase and sale with a local high-tech office user who plans to expand their local operations into the subject building as additional office space for employees. It is intended that client and public functions would be handled out of the main office location in the downtown. 



RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - panamaniac - 03-08-2015

I wonder what will become of the Music Plus store?


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - tomh009 - 03-08-2015

(03-08-2015, 08:42 AM)Spokes Wrote: To do that though they would have to subdivide the property which would be unlikely.  Why would they pay to do that?

The more likely scenario is to list the parking lots separately.  

They could still do something like the Victoria Commons scenario, where one lead developer takes on the main project, but farms out parts of it to other developers.  Given the 10 hectares of land, the project is quite large for any single (local) developer anyway.


RE: General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours - Lens - 03-10-2015

Not really a rumour but more of a thought

Market square currently has one anchor office tenant in The Record and one other major tenant with Goodlife. Considering The Record's space (which is not full because they have much more space than they need) and Stantec's vacated space which combined probably only take up 1/4 of the total complex size, when does it become more attractive to raze the whole thing and add some serious density to the block?