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Trails
Older-style electric bikes are much more compact and have a small electric motor that supplement the pedals; for riders that lack the strength to climb hills, for example.

The legal specifications meant that so long as the vehicle could conceivably be powered by pedals, and the motor was electric, it still counted as a bike. There's your loophole.
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@Canard Making derogatory comments based on the type of vehicles that someone is using is something that cyclists have had to suffer through for a very long time, and continue to suffer from to this day.  I find it inappropriate.

The question of whether those vehicles should be permitted on trails is a valid one however.  I think they shouldn't be, but *ONLY* because the trails are substandard.  In the Netherlands, gas scooters are permitted on most bike trails, and while they are a bit annoying, its mostly because their noisy and stinky, electric scooters would be fine.  It has has to do with building trails up to a high quality that makes it safe for more types of users.

As for the specific regulations around those scooters, the regulations which govern mopeds in Ontario (basically requiring a restricted M license) are broken, this is why mopeds are really uncommon here, the licensing and insurance requirements are far too high. I believe this has contributed towards the popularity of e-scooters--simply latent demand for moped type vehicles.  There probably should be new regulation to govern them, along with limited speed gas mopeds.

Also, I agree with the previous poster, the regulations governing electric mopeds should differ from those governing electric assist bicycles, but that is a difficult law to write as evidence by it going wrong in most places where it is applied.  The best option really, is to provide reasonable regulations around limited speed mopeds.
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(10-14-2016, 06:01 PM)KevinL Wrote: Older-style electric bikes are much more compact and have a small electric motor that supplement the pedals; for riders that lack the strength to climb hills, for example.

The legal specifications meant that so long as the vehicle could conceivably be powered by pedals, and the motor was electric, it still counted as a bike. There's your loophole.

To clarify; I have zero problem whatsoever with a proper bicycle equipped with a motor assist.  I've even considered buying or making my own system.

What I take issue with is the cheaply-built Chinese units which are designed to look like a gasoline scooter (which is classified as a motorcycle), but are not subject to any laws, regulations or insurance regulations because they get lumped in with bicycles by having superficial pedals (which are never used).  They're ridden by people who are not cyclists, who do not have respect for cycling or rules of the road, and are simply a less-expensive or more accessible alternative to a car because they're either too poor or have a DUI and are too lazy to get a real bicycle.

London got it right:

   

/rant
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@Canard I'll ask you a second time not to make generalizations and derogatory statements based on the type of vehicle a person uses. I feel it is quite inappropriate, and given that I have personally owned and rode one of those scooters, I feel it is personally offensive.
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Electric mopeds aren't just used by drunks, not everyone is physically able to pedal a bike. I think they should be treated just like gasoline mopeds. I don't have a problem with an electric assist bicycle being used on a trail but they should have a 20km/h top speed with the motor running and some other legal definitions.
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Regardless of what powers the two wheeled vehicles we speak of, my personal concern is more about the behavior of the rider. I walk the Cardillo trail every day, and 99% of the riders are courteous. However, once again the other day, I almost got smoked at the T intersection between Old Chicopee and Kenora. The rider blasted around the corner so fast, I literally had to jump out of the way. Had I been pushing a stroller, there would have been a very unfortunate accident. How do you police unsafe behavior in these circumstances?

My guess is London wants to keep E-scooters off the trails to keep the speeds down, but certainly any two wheeled vehicles can pose a threat to the safety of others if they have a dangerous operator.
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Perhaps they need to post speed limits on the trails. I'm not sure what would be appropriate as I normally steer clear of them, but maybe 20 kph?
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I've seen 20 km/h limits in Toronto, Hamilton and London - seems reasonable to me!
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I can't think of a reason a MUP should have a limit beyond 20km/h
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The NCC portion of the Ottawa trail system has a 20kph limit; they also have pathway patrols to help all users remain courtesy toward each other and enforce the pathway rules.

Until there is a network of segregated bike lanes as a viable alternative for cyclists who can or want or need to travel faster I would be opposed to a speed limit on the trails and encourage more education among all users and trail features make sharing the trail safer (e.g. cyclists slow down when near pedestrians; pedestrians don't be so oblivious to other users; all users communicate more and be predictable).
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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A speed limit?  Ugh, it's such a bad idea.  How do cyclists know they're going over it, they have no speedometer.  How do you enforce it, are we going to spend money and police time, instead of enforcing rules on the road where a dozen people die every year, to the trails where nobody has ever died?

Instead of doing that, we could build better trails, wider trails, that accommodate all users safely.

That is the point of 8-80 infrastructure, that it works for everyone.
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(10-16-2016, 09:49 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: A speed limit?  Ugh, it's such a bad idea.  How do cyclists know they're going over it, they have no speedometer.  How do you enforce it, are we going to spend money and police time, instead of enforcing rules on the road where a dozen people die every year, to the trails where nobody has ever died?

Instead of doing that, we could build better trails, wider trails, that accommodate all users safely.

That is the point of 8-80 infrastructure, that it works for everyone.

maybe they should get one if they are able to travel that quickly
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(10-16-2016, 06:14 PM)darts Wrote: maybe they should get one if they are able to travel that quickly

^This. I've had a speedometer on every bike I've ever owned except my first bike with training wheels.

(And yes people have been killed on the trails for riding inappropriately)
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(10-16-2016, 07:00 PM)Canard Wrote:
(10-16-2016, 06:14 PM)darts Wrote: maybe they should get one if they are able to travel that quickly

^This. I've had a speedometer on every bike I've ever owned except my first bike with training wheels.

And that puts you very much in the minority, the vast, and I do mean vast, majority of cyclists don't have a speedometer.

@darts  "Travel that quickly"....how quickly?  21 km/h?  Pretty much any cyclist can easily hit 20 km/h on level ground.  If you're going down any hill, most cyclists can easily exceed 30 km/h.  

20 km/h is actually a very slow speed to cycle at.
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For the record, I do not have a speedometer on my bicycle. 

Having a quantifiable threshold, like a speed limit, is much easier to enforce then something more qualitative ("courteous behaviour"), so I can see why that would be a proxy. Ideally you wouldn't be enforcing it on an empty trail when you could be going top speed, you would only be enforcing it in more congested conditions. 

That said, I have had some very dangerous interactions with e-scooters on the spur line/laurel trail by Erb Street over the past month.  I currently feel there should be some enforcement of signaling directions and passing for all wheeled vehicles in order to retain trail users.
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