ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[Viewfromthe42]

And a reminder that we didn't try to expropriate a parking lot, but instead eliminating two businesses, because the parking lot had a bigger backing with which to make progress difficult?

[KevinL]

The businesses are discrete parcels of land. The parking lot would be a segment of a larger parcel. Is one easier to arrange than the other? I am wondering.

[Canard]

I hate to be "that guy", but doesn't $11m sound a bit rich for a parking lot with some curbs/sidewalks and basic canopy structures? Or am I missing something?

I'm picturing something like the one at... is it Fischer-Hallman and Highland?

[Viewfromthe42]

I hate to be "that guy", but doesn't $11m sound a bit rich for a parking lot with some curbs/sidewalks and basic canopy structures?  Or am I missing something?

I'm picturing something like the one at... is it Fischer-Hallman and Highland?

It (hopefully) includes the very large payments required to completely buy out two businesses. It definitely includes the provisions to relocate the entirety of the bus facilities currently at Fairview Park Mall, likely being reformatted with LRT in something similar to the transit area being developed at UW between Ring Road and Philip Street.

[ijmorlan]

Let me just put it on the record that I am opposed to trespassing anywhere near HSR tracks!

...Fixed that

http://operationlifesaver.ca

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Man hit, killed by train in NY was photographing deer: So sad, so preventable. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/seetracksthinktrain?src=hash">#seetracksthinktrain</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NoPhotoIsWorthTheRisk?src=hash">#NoPhotoIsWorthTheRisk</a> <a href="https://t.co/X7GnodA8kw">pic.twitter.com/X7GnodA8kw</a></p>&mdash; Operation Lifesaver (@olinational) <a href="https://twitter.com/olinational/status/796736960777908224">November 10, 2016</a></blockquote>

None of which is relevant to the Spur Line or its trail, which by the way would probably not exist if not for the prior decades of trespassing.

[Canard]

I didn't mention the Spur Line Trail

John Tory just got his wrist slapped by Metrolinx PR:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A warning to all news outlets: may seem like a cool visual, but it's illegal to trespass on a rail corridor &amp; you could both die. Don't. Thx <a href="https://t.co/Qy8qcIwLYx">https://t.co/Qy8qcIwLYx</a></p>&mdash; Anne Marie Aikins (@femwriter) <a href="https://twitter.com/femwriter/status/796764847203614720">November 10, 2016</a></blockquote>

[Canard]

Ho boy. Crossing arms, signals and cross bucks are going in at Erb/Caroline after all! Giddyup!

[Markster]

I think of rails like a country highway. Traffic is sparse, but it's definitely there. But that doesn't mean that you can't ever cross the road.
I think of standing on the tracks to take a photo as similar to standing in the middle of that quiet highway to take a photo. It's inherently not safe, but with precaution, awareness, and spending as little time there as possible, risk can be managed.

[jwilliamson]

Tracks have been laid for the curve in Uptown from King onto the Spurline.

[ijmorlan]

I didn't mention the Spur Line Trail

John Tory just got his wrist slapped by Metrolinx PR:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A warning to all news outlets: may seem like a cool visual, but it's illegal to trespass on a rail corridor &amp; you could both die. Don't. Thx <a href="https://t.co/Qy8qcIwLYx">https://t.co/Qy8qcIwLYx</a></p>&mdash; Anne Marie Aikins (@femwriter) <a href="https://twitter.com/femwriter/status/796764847203614720">November 10, 2016</a></blockquote>

You “corrected” what I said to leave out “HSR”, meaning that all tracks no matter how sparsely used are covered by the edited sentence. In particular, it’s reasonable to assume from this and other things you’ve written that you would be opposed to people walking on the ties on the Spur Line during the day when there is no longer any train traffic, not even the slow traffic we had before.

My point is that there is nothing at all wrong with some trespassing, including on some railway rights-of-way. The key is to put careful thought into it and not just assume that it’s safe just because the traffic level isn’t obvious like it is on a busy highway. The world doesn’t generally work on the basis of blind unthinking adherence to rules, even safety rules.

Having said that, I’m not sure what I think of these photos of politicians on railway tracks. On the one hand, I assume they and their photographers are watching what they’re doing. Also, if they are doing it at an authorized crossing, it’s not at all clear to me that they are in fact trespassing — a crossing is a place where it is definitely legal to cross the tracks. On the other hand, it implicitly suggests standing right in the middle of train tracks, which even though I’m fine with it in the right circumstances, I don’t actually want to specifically encourage people to hang out there.

[Canard]

You “corrected” what I said to leave out “HSR”, meaning that all tracks no matter how sparsely used are covered by the edited sentence. In particular, it’s reasonable to assume from this and other things you’ve written that you would be opposed to people walking on the ties on the Spur Line during the day when there is no longer any train traffic, not even the slow traffic we had before.

The rules are pretty clear, here:

   

Yes, it angers me when I see people walking on the tracks instead of the trail.

My point is that there is nothing at all wrong with some trespassing, including on some railway rights-of-way. The key is to put careful thought into it and not just assume that it’s safe just because the traffic level isn’t obvious like it is on a busy highway. The world doesn’t generally work on the basis of blind unthinking adherence to rules, even safety rules.

Sorry, I can't agree. I guess as someone who grew up with railways, it's my responsibility to not just let this slide, and try my best to educate others about safety around the tracks.

While you may have your wits about you, and think it's safe, what about the teenager with their earbuds in that see you walking along the tracks and think "oh, it's safe for me to do that, too" - only to get killed?

Why is it that people on this forum are so okay with this, but freak out when they see someone do a rolling stop? It's as if some only want to enforce rules that are convienent for them, and make the rules that stand in their way "frivolous". It's really infuriating.

[Viewfromthe42]

The one thing I'll say about your comparison is that if someone is on the tracks, they are the one who gets hurt or killed. If someone does a rolling stop, it is someone else who gets hurt or killed.

[danbrotherston]

...
Why is it that people on this forum are so okay with this, but freak out when they see someone do a rolling stop? It's as if some only want to enforce rules that are convienent for them, and make the rules that stand in their way "frivolous".  It's really infuriating.

ViewFromThe42 makes a good point about rolling stops as well.

But actually, I would add, that I don't really complain about rolling stops per se, in that I think most of our intersections should be yield's instead (use of the incorrect traffic control device bugs me too, but necessitated by drivers treating yields sign as green lights). What bothers me, certainly, and I suspect many others, is the fact that drivers do rolling stops 99% of the time, but when a cyclist does the same, all of a sudden, it's because cyclists are "scofflaws"...and the resulting vitriol that comes with that.

[ijmorlan]

You “corrected” what I said to leave out “HSR”, meaning that all tracks no matter how sparsely used are covered by the edited sentence. In particular, it’s reasonable to assume from this and other things you’ve written that you would be opposed to people walking on the ties on the Spur Line during the day when there is no longer any train traffic, not even the slow traffic we had before.

The rules are pretty clear, here:



Yes, it angers me when I see people walking on the tracks instead of the trail.

My point is that there is nothing at all wrong with some trespassing, including on some railway rights-of-way. The key is to put careful thought into it and not just assume that it’s safe just because the traffic level isn’t obvious like it is on a busy highway. The world doesn’t generally work on the basis of blind unthinking adherence to rules, even safety rules.

Sorry, I can't agree. I guess as someone who grew up with railways, it's my responsibility to not just let this slide, and try my best to educate others about safety around the tracks.

While you may have your wits about you, and think it's safe, what about the teenager with their earbuds in that see you walking along the tracks and think "oh, it's safe for me to do that, too" - only to get killed?

Why is it that people on this forum are so okay with this, but freak out when they see someone do a rolling stop? It's as if some only want to enforce rules that are convienent for them, and make the rules that stand in their way "frivolous".  It's really infuriating.

Yes, I understand the rules. I’m saying that exact, unthinking adherence to rules is not how things work, although when it is convenient to do so those in power sometimes use minor rules violations as an excuse to persecute others. This is called authoritarianism, and it’s something we need less of in the world, not more.

It is not in fact unsafe to walk on those particular rails, although I don’t mind the warning sign about not walking on the tracks, because it is true that one should not walk on tracks without thinking seriously about what one is doing. I would also point out that the sign also says “Trail Closed at night between 11:00PM and 7:00AM until July 2017 Train Activity occurs during this time period” which is just silly and frankly offensive (side note: I would like to understand fully the bit about July 2017. What happens after that time?).

Why are we OK with it? Well, OK with what? I already said I’m definitely not OK with trespassing near HSR tracks. But I’m fine with perfectly safe activities that happen to be technical rules violations, and I think most here are of the same mind. Furthermore, I doubt anybody is really fully consistent on this point. Remember, you yourself climbed the McDonald’s steps after the McDonald’s was closed. Also, since we’re still discussing this, here is something for you to consider: I believe you previously expressed hesitation to take a perfectly legal left on red. Perhaps the issue is that you are uncomfortable with any activity that looks like it might be a rules violation.

As for the teenager with earbuds, everybody is responsible for their own safety. If they walk on the main line and get killed, it’s a bit much to blame somebody else for walking in their sight on the Spur Line months previously.

Also I agree with the other commenter that most stop signs should be yield signs. But even with them as stop signs there is absolutely no ethical problem with a rolling stop. To me a “rolling stop” means slowing down as if to stop, performing all the checks that one would perform if stopped, and then continuing on without actually coming to a halt. This implies that one will move very slowly for a time, indeed one will be almost halted, and one will check as carefully as if actually stopped and will also be planning to stop in the event that somebody is there and will actually stop for real in that case. It’s not at all the same as just ignoring the sign. Of course, a rolling stop can still yield a ticket which stopping presumably should not.

[BuildingScout]

But actually, I would add, that I don't really complain about rolling stops per se, in that I think most of our intersections should be yield's instead (use of the incorrect traffic control device bugs me too, but necessitated by drivers treating yields sign as green lights). 

I'm in favour of many rolling stops when they are closer to yields. Depends on a manyy things: visibility, pedestrian traffic, lighting conditions, road speeds, etc. If in doubt, come to a complete stop. If it looks good, slow down and continue slowing until you are certain no one is coming and then proceed slowly ahead.