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General Road and Highway Discussion
(12-19-2016, 08:45 AM)SammyOES2 Wrote: Ijmorlan, just because you see people driving by themselves on a section where public transportation would work, doesn't mean public transportation would work for them.  It has to make sense and be practical from doorstep to doorstep.

And your last comment is why many of us get frustrated with these discussions.  Because it's obviously what you feel but it's just factually untrue.  It's the same way talking with anti-lrt people goes.

Transit that runs every 2-3 minutes would be sufficient for many of those people. You are correct that some of the single-occupant cars are carrying trips that wouldn’t be convenient on transit. However, some of the multiple-occupant cars are carrying trips that could go on transit. Overall, the point is that a huge amount of the traffic on the road is being carrying with stupendous inefficiency and much of it could be taken by a good transit system. Since the road is being paid for by everybody’s tax dollars, it’s perfectly reasonable for us to argue for efficiency improvements, even if it causes some inconvenience to those currently receiving the benefits of free roads. Beggars can’t be choosers … except when it comes to free roads, apparently.
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(12-16-2016, 02:53 PM)SammyOES2 Wrote: People generally misunderstand "no-fault" insurance (not sure if this is what you did here).  I believe the primary point of "no-fault" insurance is just that you always deal with your insurance company regardless of the details of the accident.  Then your insurance company deals with the other parties insurance company on your behalf.

In accidents you still get assigned a percentage that you're at fault.  This influences the amount of your deductible that you pay.  More importantly, it also impacts whether your rates can be increased.  If you're found to be <25% at fault, your rates won't go up.  I think this is in all cases, but maybe this is insurance company specific.

Edit: For a 'fun' read, you can actually see how insurance companies have to determine fault in Ontario: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

I got to read all this information recently... Last Monday I had to go out of town, and I slowed down and stopped behind the vehicle in front of me.  I looked in the rear view and saw the woman behind me was not slowing down at all.  I braced, and she plowed into the back of me, and pushed me under the SUV I was behind.  So, I began to learn the process of insurance claims.

There is a provincial document (Insurance Act maybe?) that outlines in extreme detail different scenarios, and assigns levels of fault.  It's far from perfect, but I was pretty impressed.  (ie. In my scenario, since the two of us were stopped, Car 3 is 100% at fault for both Car 1 & 2.  If I was merely slowing down to a stop when hit, Car 1 would be at 0% fault, Car 2 (Me) would be 50% at fault for the collision between Car 1 & Car 2, but 0% fault for the Car 2/Car 3 collision.  Car 3 would be 100% fault for Car 2/3 and 50% for Car 1/2.  So I was VERY happy that there were witnesses that stated I was at a complete stop! Smile )

As for the insurance devices, I too am very weary of trusting the insurance company, but I did sign up with Ajusto (Desjardins) for my car.  It measures only Hard Braking, Hard Accelerations, km's driven and time of day driving.  There is no speed measuring on the OBD (Although they now have a phone app that I believe does measure speed).  The documents I signed when enrolling stated that the data collected would never result in an increase in premiums, that it would only lower my discount.  So I start the year with a possible 25% discount, and based on those 4 factors above, I am currently at 9%.  The km's can get you 10%, but once you get over a certain number of clicks, you get 0%.  I'm sitting at 3%.  Travel times will get you 5%, I'm sitting at 4% as most of my driving is done outside of "rush hour" and "overnight".  The hardest thing is the 10% possible for Hard Brake or Hard Acceleration.  I'm at 2%.  I find the acceleration the hardest thing, unless you baby the gas as you pull away from a stop, and take 15 seconds to reach 50 km/h, you get "hard acceleration".  Braking is more forgiving, but when you get cut off [cause your that jerk taking forever to accelerate Wink ] you get dinged for those as well.

   

CAA Insurance also has a phone app I believe.  All in all I'll take a 1% discount when I have no fear of it upping my premiums.  Last year I got 14%, maybe one day I'll get the whole 25%! Smile

Coke
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Coke6pk, I'm really sorry to hear of the collision but glad that it seems to be working out with your insurance and- most importantly- that you were not hurt.

By the way, thanks for all the detail on Ajusto. I had yet to hear that level from someone who has used it.
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Coke - that is awesome! (Not about your accident, but your explanation and breakdown).

I'm going to have to look into this! The Prius already forces you to feel very guilty every time you push the accelerator via the HSI, so I'm thinking I'd do pretty well on the acceleration graph. Smile
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(12-20-2016, 12:02 PM)MidTowner Wrote:
(12-20-2016, 11:55 AM)SammyOES2 Wrote: I pay thousands of dollars in gas tax.

The gas tax is 14.7 cents a litre. To pay two thousand dollars in gas tax, you would have to burn 13,600 litres of gasoline (I am assuming unleaded gasoline).


There is 27.9 cents/litre in tax in Ontario (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_fuel..._in_Canada).  

Between my two vehicles I average around 9L/100km.  And I probably drive 30,000km/year.  So, you're right I'm at $753.

Edit: Thinking about this more it's probably more like 9L/100KM, 40,000km/year for both me and my wife.  So that would put my share at: ~$500.
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@SammyOES

I'm curious, do you disagree with the point that mass driving, especially in urban areas causes several huge negative external costs? Does driving not cause pollution, injuries, deaths, urban sprawl and social problems. If you want evidence for those things, I can provide sources.

And yes, they do provide benefits, but you again equate transit and mass motoring. Mass motoring has these costs, mass transit doesn't, yet the provide the same benefits.

We *should* subsidize transit, because we *should* subsidize transportation because of all the economic benefits you continually point out. We *shouldn't* subsidize automobile travel as much, because most of the benefits can be reaped through mass transit instead of mass motoring. We get a far better ROI.
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MidTowner, don't forget that there's a 10c/L federal gas tax as well.

Again SammyOES2, only gas taxes are a direct charge for your use of roads. Everything else is part of a giant pool of money that everyone pays into, and is in no way directly marked for roads, nor is your portion linked to roads, let alone ones you use. Assuming something like a 50L fill up every week, a car will wind up paying (50L x 52 weeks/year x 24.7cents/L) ~$643 a year in gas taxes, which are indeed a direct for-use cost to you. With combined federal/provincial gas tax revenues of ~$13 billion, the average Canadian pays ~$372 a year in gas taxes.

Compare that to a GRT adult rider, who pays $82/month for a pass, or $984 a year in direct for-use costs.
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Coke6pk, really interesting stuff.

I'm always kind of torn with things like "no increased premiums" with things like this.  Because after enough time and acceptance its just word play.  You price your insurance high and force people to get these devices to get any sort of reasonable price.  Of course, maybe that's not a bad thing...

Edit: Because we don't have enough controversy ITT, its the same way I feel about paying for NEXUS.  I pay a fee and give the Government a bunch of information to have a reasonable experience at the airport.  At some point, the people that can't afford the fee or value their privacy are the ones stuck with a really shitty experience.
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(12-20-2016, 12:04 PM)Canard Wrote: Coke - that is awesome! (Not about your accident, but your explanation and breakdown).

I'm going to have to look into this! The Prius already forces you to feel very guilty every time you push the accelerator via the HSI, so I'm thinking I'd do pretty well on the acceleration graph. Smile

Well the Yaris was written off, so my hope is the new (to me) Chevy Sonic does better. Smile

Coke
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Dan, "I'm still surprised you disagree with the benefits. I am guessing it is because you think that transit cannot be competitive with driving. But like I said, this is really to do with urban form an design. Transit oriented design can make transit just as competitive as driving, in my opinion"

As I mentioned, I lived in NYC for awhile and am really clear on the benefits of a really solid and comprehensive transportation system can be. Both in terms of local subway/bus and in terms of a larger "commuter train" (for lack of a better phrase) network. And even at that population density you have a large number of use cases that can't be met easily by public transportation. 23% of Manhattan households and significantly higher %s in the other boroughs still own a car! (http://www.nycedc.com/blog-entry/new-yor...nd-cars%20). These are people with access to a pretty solid mass transportation system.
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(12-20-2016, 12:45 PM)Coke6pk Wrote:
(12-20-2016, 12:04 PM)Canard Wrote: Coke - that is awesome! (Not about your accident, but your explanation and breakdown).

I'm going to have to look into this! The Prius already forces you to feel very guilty every time you push the accelerator via the HSI, so I'm thinking I'd do pretty well on the acceleration graph. Smile

Well the Yaris was written off, so my hope is the new (to me) Chevy Sonic does better. Smile

Sorry to hear about the accident but glad all is OK!

Is the acceleration/braking discount based on how hard you press the pedal or the actual acceleration/deceleration?
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I sure hope it would be based on G's. That information is available over OBDII (if your car has ABS/ESP, presumably). It would have to be - otherwise if you press the pedal hard at a red light you'd get dinged. Big Grin
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Streetlights are up along the new Hwy 24 exit off 401 - wonder when the switchover will happen?
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I am not sure the elephant in the room has been mentioned, but the reason why so many people prefer to drive instead of transit is not just because it usually takes much less time, but because of our climate.  Not very many people want to walk 10-20 mins in -10 or in snow, and then wait for their ride to arrive in that temperature, if there is an alternative available.  The reason why it works in Europe is because their winter is much milder than ours, save for the Scandinavian countries.  

Mass transit only works in big cities like Toronto, where you generally don't have to walk very much to find the subway/street car/bus stop, you can travel in tunnels or buildings for a good chunk of your walk, and the transit is running frequently enough that you don't have to wait too long.
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Who is accountable when ice from another vehicle hits your car on the highway? - The Record

I'm always so tempted at stoplights to get out of my car and brush off the car in front of me when I see they've done a piss-poor job of clearing the snow off their vehicle before setting off.
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