Toronto transit projects

[Markster]

Bombardier is absolutely destroying Metrolinx in the court. Loving this.

Is there like a live stream or something?

[Canard]

No, but Ben Spurr and Oliver Moore are both there and are live-tweeting. Metrolinx laywers just took the floor.

[Markster]

To save others the searching:

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver
https://twitter.com/BenSpurr

Metrolinx is claiming that there was never an official written change to the delivery schedule. A schedule that Bombardier failed to meet. (Pilot was to be delivered in 2015)

[Canard]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Judge tells Metrolinx lawyer: &quot;I don't get the urgency. You don't even have tracks.&quot;</p>&mdash; Ben Spurr (@BenSpurr) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenSpurr/status/844253820704251904">March 21, 2017</a></blockquote>

[Viewfromthe42]

Is this the point where they drag us into the equation, and point to our tracks and delayed opening?

[tomh009]

Judge tells Metrolinx lawyer: "I don't get the urgency. You don't even have tracks."

— Ben Spurr (@BenSpurr) March 21, 2017

[Canard]

Court adjourned for the day. No decision, judge needs time to think. Will probably be next week.

[Viewfromthe42]

Do we want to speculate about the consequences of a ruling in Metrolinx' favour?

[Canard]

Sure - slim to none. Bombardier's legal team demolished Metrolinx. They haven't got a leg to stand on.

[ijmorlan]

Sure - slim to none.  Bombardier's legal team demolished Metrolinx.  They haven't got a leg to stand on.

I didn’t see any of it, but I like that little quotation from the judge. I’m a bit confused about one thing however — how is our system not the first instance of what Metrolinx is building? That is, don’t they have tracks — ours? I thought our vehicles were essentially identical to the ones that will be used in Toronto, and I actually was under the impression that our first vehicle was essentially the pilot vehicle for the whole order.

Also, how is Bombardier not very late and therefore in violation? Or is the dispute mostly over the impact of the lateness, which I agree is very little since there are no tracks in Toronto on which the vehicles could be run?

[panamaniac]

Sure - slim to none.  Bombardier's legal team demolished Metrolinx.  They haven't got a leg to stand on.

You went to the court proceedings?

[JoeKW]

Sure - slim to none.  Bombardier's legal team demolished Metrolinx.  They haven't got a leg to stand on.

I didn’t see any of it, but I like that little quotation from the judge. I’m a bit confused about one thing however — how is our system not the first instance of what Metrolinx is building? That is, don’t they have tracks — ours? I thought our vehicles were essentially identical to the ones that will be used in Toronto, and I actually was under the impression that our first vehicle was essentially the pilot vehicle for the whole order.

Also, how is Bombardier not very late and therefore in violation? Or is the dispute mostly over the impact of the lateness, which I agree is very little since there are no tracks in Toronto on which the vehicles could be run?

Metrolinx doesn't have any tracks, Waterloo does and the two have very little to do with each other.

[ijmorlan]

I didn’t see any of it, but I like that little quotation from the judge. I’m a bit confused about one thing however — how is our system not the first instance of what Metrolinx is building? That is, don’t they have tracks — ours? I thought our vehicles were essentially identical to the ones that will be used in Toronto, and I actually was under the impression that our first vehicle was essentially the pilot vehicle for the whole order.

Also, how is Bombardier not very late and therefore in violation? Or is the dispute mostly over the impact of the lateness, which I agree is very little since there are no tracks in Toronto on which the vehicles could be run?

Metrolinx doesn't have any tracks, Waterloo does and the two have very little to do with each other.

Our vehicles are part of Metrolinx’ order. I agree the construction of the respective systems is unconnected, but as to the vehicle order, they are intimately linked. Also, don’t forget that our system is opening late because of Bombardier’s delays. So why isn’t Metrolinx arguing that Bombardier’s pilot vehicle should have been in Waterloo months and months ago (nowhere to drive until recently, of course, but there seems to be lots of non-driving work to do first)?

Also does anybody know how different the signalling is on the different systems? To me it seems obvious that the Toronto system and our system, not to mention the Mississauga and Hamilton systems, should use identical signalling systems. Loaning one of our vehicles to Hamilton should be a matter of making an entry in Hamilton’s vehicle database and dropping the vehicle onto their tracks. One day these systems will likely all interlink (well, maybe not ours, but even that is a possibility), and it would be a shame if the interfaces between them had to contend with multiple signalling systems for no good reason.

[Viewfromthe42]

My understanding is that our vehicles are a piggy-back on to the Metrolinx order, and earlier on when the Region said they would not join Metrolinx in their suit, it prevented Metrolinx from arguing that they did have track to use vehicles on, because they only have our track, and we aren't joining their suit.

[Canard]

Very interesting. I wonder if that's why using our "test track" for Metrolinx isn't a thing anymore and was dropped a while back... that in fact we (the Region) cut the ties to stay out of this legal mess. Very smart, methinks...