Grand River Transit

[timc]

In the plan, 18 is interlined with 12, right? So it has to end up on University.

I agree that there seems to be a big gap on Weber between Albert and University that isn't very well served.

[Elmira Guy]

I couldn't tell from the map. Do the 12 and 18 overlap on the east side, or does 12 not start until King and University?

Weber from University to King isn't serviced at all. Perhaps even as far as Albert as you say, though I don't know if it is just under served, or not at all.

[ijmorlan]

I'm looking at the 2018 proposal map again (http://www.grt.ca/en/about-grt/resources...etwork.pdf) and am curious about Block Line station. The map shows the 16, 26 and 201 all terminating there, but I have heard nothing about a mini-terminal or turnaround structure, nor do I see how one could be easily put in. Any insights?

The RFP plans showed a U-turn lane for buses, from rightmost northbound to rightmost southbound if I remember correctly. Controlled by signals of course.

[KevinL]

Elmira Guy: the 12 and 18 will interline (one turns into the other).

ijmorlan: Buses would U-turn in the Block Line/Courtland intersecton? Interesting.

[Elmira Guy]

Roger that. Thanks Kevin.

[danbrotherston]

Elmira Guy: the 12 and 18 will interline (one turns into the other).

ijmorlan: Buses would U-turn in the Block Line/Courtland intersecton? Interesting.

With the caveat that GRT lists them as different route numbers as to have the flexibility to not do so as needed.

[KevinL]

Also keeps it from being one giant, unwieldy route (they meet again at their south ends, at Fairway).

[timio]

ijmorlan: Buses would U-turn in the Block Line/Courtland intersecton? Interesting.

At Hillmount, just north of the Block Line intersection.  They put in what looks like a bus bay on either side of Courtland with a priority signal for bus traffic to U-turn.  You can see the base here: https://goo.gl/maps/mdmFuPjzSGs

[KevinL]

So buses would come up Block Line, go left on Courtland, U-turn at the Hillmount intersection, pull up to the bus bay on Courtland; then depart with a right turn on Block Line? Sounds alright.

[Canard]

As a software guy, and based on everything I've read about the signal priority, my educated guess is that you give the complexity far too much credit!

Thanks for your explanation - when you put it like that, you take all the magic out of it.

[danbrotherston]

Has anyone done any study of how generous our GRT schedules actually are? I know they do some evaluation of on time performance, but if we achieve that by slowing down buses, then it's a perverse incentive.

Reason I ask, I was on a bus this morning that took 5 minutes longer than Google Maps suggested to arrive, and then got stuck in traffic for 3-4 light cycles, and made almost every stop, and yet, the driver still decided to literally stop at a green light, I can only imagine, to keep from getting too far ahead of schedule.

[MidTowner]

They're heavily padded, but it would be hard to determine whether a driver's choice might be because he or she is running early, or for some other reason. Sometimes a driver will stop at a very new yellow, or slow down because (I guess) he sees a countdown close to zero, and I wonder if that's overcaution, or to try to waste time to get back on schedule.

What I can say is that, taking the 200 between (roughly) downtown and Conestoga Mall, it is typical in both directions (near or in rush hour) for them to wait at multiple stops to get back on schedule. At one point I was timing this for my own curiosity's sake, and it was sometimes as much as five or six minutes of this kind of waiting, on a trip scheduled to take about thirty, but more usually three or four. That's big: that could imply that the schedule is padded ten percent or more for real-world conditions.

The 200 is very generous (others seem to be, too, but this is the one I take regularly), and it is readily obvious for some trips, and when student ridership is light (reading week, exam time). The summer schedule seems to allow the same time as the winter schedule, even though boardings consume a lot less time. As a result, it's commonplace on a trip of any length for the bus to idle at a stop for several minutes, so it's not early.

[danbrotherston]

They're heavily padded, but it would be hard to determine whether a driver's choice might be because he or she is running early, or for some other reason. Sometimes a driver will stop at a very new yellow, or slow down because (I guess) he sees a countdown close to zero, and I wonder if that's overcaution, or to try to waste time to get back on schedule.

What I can say is that, taking the 200 between (roughly) downtown and Conestoga Mall, it is typical in both directions (near or in rush hour) for them to wait at multiple stops to get back on schedule. At one point I was timing this for my own curiosity's sake, and it was sometimes as much as five or six minutes of this kind of waiting, on a trip scheduled to take about thirty, but more usually three or four. That's big: that could imply that the schedule is padded ten percent or more for real-world conditions.

The 200 is very generous (others seem to be, too, but this is the one I take regularly), and it is readily obvious for some trips, and when student ridership is light (reading week, exam time). The summer schedule seems to allow the same time as the winter schedule, even though boardings consume a lot less time. As a result, it's commonplace on a trip of any length for the bus to idle at a stop for several minutes, so it's not early.

Yes, I've seen them slow for a close yellow too, but this was basically a complete stop, at 2 on the countdown timer.  Then three to four seconds after green before we moved again.

I mean, there could be other explanations, but as a passenger, still very frustrating.  There are few options for layover on this route at stops due to it following busy two lanes roads so.

In any case, it would be good to do a more rigorous analysis of this.

[chutten]

The realtime GTFS feed is available for consumption here: http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/region...FSdata.asp

You'll need a grounding in protocol buffers and data storage to build up a suitable number of records. From there you can compare the scheduled stop times (present in the static feed zip, also at the above URL) to the ones advertised by the GTFS data.

From there it's a matter of summing seconds of earliness per dimension you want to track (presumably per stop, route, hour... but maybe you're also interested in per-bus timings in case you want to see if there's a driver component?)

Or, you could ask GRT yourself. They undoubtedly track it as a key performance metric.

[Bob_McBob]

GRT raising fares on July 1:

http://www.grt.ca/en/fares-passes/fares.aspx