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Walking in Waterloo Region
I took a walk past there today, I'm a little surprised, for one, seems like a lot of work is being done, not just laying a sidewalk, all the driveway aprons appear to have been replaced. It's also, actually incomplete, I kind of assumed they could pour that much sidewalk in one day (just pouring I mean, not even setup), but there is one segment missing (and I assume that person cannot use their driveway).

The boulevard does also appears wide enough for frees, of course, such trees may be too near the road since it is a regional through route, not a residential street.
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We drove along the "new" Shirley Ave. for the first time since it's been aligned with Wellington tonight.

I was really saddened to see just a tiny little sidewalk being put in... next to this massive swath of traffic lanes. A lone cyclist was trying to get through, squeezing past the construction barrels and massive transport trucks.

Why, why, why could they not have made the sidewalk on the side a MUT?????

I will never ever ever understand why any new projects wouldn't just automatically put a huge MUT on the side of the road when there's an expanse of grass there. It makes no sense to me at all.
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"The right tree for the right place." The City of Kitchener plants very small species. They planted a lot of serviceberries in my neighbourhood over the past years, and those can be accommodated in a very narrow strip.

Anyway, I'm just glad that sidewalk is in. That was an unfortunate gap.
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I think the new Shirley Avenue will have bike lanes along the entire length, which I personally would prefer over a MUT.
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Why can't we have both?
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Bike lanes and a MUT? If there are dedicated bike lanes, a dedicated sidewalk for pedestrians seems to make the most sense.
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(09-18-2017, 09:04 PM)Canard Wrote: Why, why, why could they not have made the sidewalk on the side a MUT?????

I will never ever ever understand why any new projects wouldn't just automatically put a huge MUT on the side of the road when there's an expanse of grass there.  It makes no sense to me at all.

(09-19-2017, 07:36 AM)jamincan Wrote: I think the new Shirley Avenue will have bike lanes along the entire length, which I personally would prefer over a MUT.

This is why the Dutch model works. Dedicated pedestrian infrastructure. Dedicated high-quality (smooth, wide) bike infrastructure that satisfies both low-speed and high-speed cyclists.

In my opinion, having more than just painted lines for a bike lane that goes to Bingeman's would have been a good idea. If there was decent infrastructure I could see my family biking over there, especially if the proposed improvements to the River Rd-Shirley rail overpass happen.
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(09-19-2017, 09:43 AM)tomh009 Wrote: Bike lanes and a MUT?  If there are dedicated bike lanes, a dedicated sidewalk for pedestrians seems to make the most sense.

I would like to see both and like others was surprised to see a standard sized sidewalk here when there is room for so much more. A MUT and bike lanes would be great.

A wider sidewalk is just a much more pleasant pedestrian experience. Dog walkers, people with strollers, mobility scooters, people walking two abreast in each direction can all get by without much fuss. If two groups walking two abreast approach each other one doesn't have to go single file or walk on the grass to pass. If the room is there make better use of it.
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A wide sidewalk doesn't have to be an MUT. It could just be a wide sidewalk.
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Some cyclists may be comfortable using the bike Lanes and uncomfortable using MUTs but the vast majority of cyclists are not comfortable near traffic like that. If we want to make cycling widespread then MUTs should be preferred and as a cyclist who prefers bike Lanes I'm willing to admit that my wishes shouldn't be prioritized. Of course, a road like this leaves plenty of room for both, which the region occasionally accommodates. The real answer is of course as Highlander points out, if the region bought a copy of CROW and used it then we wouldn't need both but apparently that's just a crazy idea.
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(09-19-2017, 10:11 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: if the region bought a copy of CROW

I think I need you to spell out what that means.
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I believe the Shirley Ave project was an MTO initiative, so they may have different standards with respect to new cycling and pedestrian infrastructure.
The new traffic lights don't use the standard ROW hanging mounds but the typical mounts that are used when installed on MTO maintained roads.
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(09-19-2017, 10:17 AM)timc Wrote:
(09-19-2017, 10:11 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: if the region bought a copy of CROW

I think I need you to spell out what that means.

http://www.crow.nl/publicaties/design-ma...raffic-(1)
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(09-19-2017, 10:07 AM)MidTowner Wrote: A wide sidewalk doesn't have to be an MUT. It could just be a wide sidewalk.

That's what I was thinking.  To me, if we want to accommodate (and balance the priority of) both bicyclists and pedestrians, and we have enough room for bike lanes + sidewalk, then there should really be two options:
  • Bike lane for bicycles, sidewalk for pedestrians (an extra-wide sidewalk would be nice but I don't know how many pedestrians will actually walk here)
  • A single segregated MUT with a bike lane and a pedestrian lane
As Dan says, some bicyclists are not comfortable near cars.  But similarly some pedestrians are not comfortable near bicyclists.  So to me segregation between the two is better, space permitting.  Giving bicycles a lane and a half (bike lane + 1/2 MUT) while pedestrians have to share the MUT with the bicyclists doesn't seem like a good balance to me.
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I don't think anyone could find fault with anything that Tom just said.
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