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St. Patrick's celebrations
#16
They tried the community policing approach for years and the party kept growing.

I think in recent years the party's reputation has been drawing out-of-town fun seekers who have fewer ties to the community and are more likely to cause trouble. It was only a matter of time before an actual riot broke out.

The societal costs of Oktoberfest, and alcohol in general, are greatly under-appreciated and acknowledged.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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#17
I'm not sure I'd advocate for Oktoberfest to be the model, and I can't say I have a perfect solution to the concerns people have about the St. Patty's celebration, but if we take Oktoberfest as the comparison, the hypocrisy is pretty clear. Right now they're worried about youths getting drunk and bussing in from out of town, at the same time the Oktoberfest planners are strategizing how to draw in more youth and out-of-town party-goers. This all strikes me as typical of a prevalent attitude in Waterloo that students are rude interlopers who should pay their tuition money and be grateful we allow them to live here, rather than one of the main pillars of the region's prosperity. I expect the annual Hell's Angel party near Laurelwood will go ahead as it always does. I wonder if the property owners will have a visit from the police to remind them of community standards?
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#18
The difference between this (in its current form) and Oktoberfest is that (1) the former results in substantial property damage and (2) the latter results in substantial revenue for local business.

Legalizing the party seems like a good solution to me. Laurier should have enough parking lots available that one or two could be used for tents.
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#19
It was previously held in a tent at Waterloo Park to get people off of Ezra Avenue. This was discontinued a few years ago because it didn't have the desired result.

Having it on campus at WLU is probably not going to happen because Laurier doesn't support or condone this event.
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#20
We can't compare Ezra to Oktoberfest.

Oktoberfest has licenced Smart Serve Servers. Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has a Liquor Licence. Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has a Maximum Capacity that the Fire Dept enforces. Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest serves alcohol purchased for resale (Higher rate than consumers pay). Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest pays for security and paid duty police coverage. Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has Insurance. Ezra doesn't.
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#21
(03-03-2018, 02:12 PM)kaiserdiver Wrote: [...] but if we take Oktoberfest as the comparison, the hypocrisy is pretty clear. Right now they're worried about youths getting drunk and bussing in from out of town, at the same time the Oktoberfest planners are strategizing how to draw in more youth and out-of-town party-goers. This all strikes me as typical of a prevalent attitude in Waterloo that students are rude interlopers who should pay their tuition money and be grateful we allow them to live here, rather than one of the main pillars of the region's prosperity. I expect the annual Hell's Angel party near Laurelwood will go ahead as it always does. I wonder if the property owners will have a visit from the police to remind them of community standards?

The Oktoberfest party is attempting to draw tourists in to licensed venues (affiliated or not, as Bingeman's was this year). That is very different from people being bused in from out of country to take over a street, sell and consume alcohol illegally, and then get bused back out by dawn.
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#22
(03-03-2018, 02:12 PM)kaiserdiver Wrote: I'm not sure I'd advocate for Oktoberfest to be the model, and I can't say I have a perfect solution to the concerns people have about the St. Patty's celebration, but if we take Oktoberfest as the comparison, the hypocrisy is pretty clear. Right now they're worried about youths getting drunk and bussing in from out of town, at the same time the Oktoberfest planners are strategizing how to draw in more youth and out-of-town party-goers. This all strikes me as typical of a prevalent attitude in Waterloo that students are rude interlopers who should pay their tuition money and be grateful we allow them to live here, rather than one of the main pillars of the region's prosperity. I expect the annual Hell's Angel party near Laurelwood will go ahead as it always does. I wonder if the property owners will have a visit from the police to remind them of community standards?

The Hells Angels have a party on private property... they don't drink in public areas.

Regardless of your thoughts on the actual group, a HA party is no different in the eyes of the law as my backyard BBQ.  I can drink in my yard, just like the HA can drink on their farmland.

When either one of us walk out onto the street with our booze, it's a police issue that they can rightfully shut down.

Coke
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#23
(03-05-2018, 10:32 AM)Coke6pk Wrote: We can't compare Ezra to Oktoberfest.  

Oktoberfest has licenced Smart Serve Servers.  Ezra doesn't.  
Oktoberfest has a Liquor Licence.  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has a Maximum Capacity that the Fire Dept enforces.  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest serves alcohol purchased for resale (Higher rate than consumers pay).  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest pays for security and paid duty police coverage.  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has Insurance.  Ezra doesn't.

Well, I think the point of the “legalization” idea is to make the St. Patrick’s day celebration more like Oktoberfest. I’m guessing it would not be on Ezra St. I mean, I’m sure some troublemakers would still try to make trouble there, at least in the first year or two, no matter what was set up elsewhere, but the idea would be to replace an uncontrolled street party with something just as attractive to most of the audience but without many of the downsides.
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#24
The City of Waterloo amended their Public Nuisance and Property Standards bylaws on public gathering.

You can find the Council packet on the City website.

The City tried a St. Patrick's Day party in a tent a couple of years ago with little effect on the larger gathering.  Last year, I believe that the Pub on King hosted a tent, but I can't recall whether it was as widely subscribed as hoped.

The Ezra Street gathering highlights the challenge of having public space that could be repurposed for gatherings (such as the Public Square).  Other cities do have larger squares or parks where this could happen.  If it were a different time of year, Waterloo Park could be a suitable place, and indeed it was tried next to Rink in the Park.  When development is allowed to encroach on public space, or at the very least, be built in such a way that there is no possibility for public space to be expanded in the future, it limits where public gatherings, planned or otherwise, might be able to be hosted.

Looping back to Oktoberfest, when it launched, the organizers had the infrastructure of various service clubs that could be brought to bear to make sure that the various public gatherings were successful.  It also meant that there was a mechanism to change and adapt over time.  As the St. Patrick's Day parties are more a loose conglomeration, there is no "head" to talk to.  I wonder if things had been different if the various "hosts" on Ezra had approached the City with a proposal to host (and also accept the liability for) a street party.  Instead, the attitude that I am hearing in the press (filtered, I know), is, "We'll have our party and there is nothing that anyone can do about it."  If instead, the attitude was, "We'll have our party and we have put various measures in place to ensure the safety of people and property, etc" then the attitude might have been different.
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#25
(03-05-2018, 10:32 AM)Coke6pk Wrote: We can't compare Ezra to Oktoberfest.  

Oktoberfest has licenced Smart Serve Servers.  Ezra doesn't.  
Oktoberfest has a Liquor Licence.  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has a Maximum Capacity that the Fire Dept enforces.  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest serves alcohol purchased for resale (Higher rate than consumers pay).  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest pays for security and paid duty police coverage.  Ezra doesn't.
Oktoberfest has Insurance.  Ezra doesn't.

Totally agree.  The Ezra street party and Oktoberfest are at opposite ends of the spectrum of even trying to comply with the law.  If Laurier or UW wanted to have a "legal" party on their property, they could go about organizing it and getting the requisite approvals.  It is interesting that neither has stepped up - I'm sure they liability scares the crap out of them.
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#26
(03-06-2018, 04:41 PM)NotStan Wrote: Totally agree.  The Ezra street party and Oktoberfest are at opposite ends of the spectrum of even trying to comply with the law.  If Laurier or UW wanted to have a "legal" party on their property, they could go about organizing it and getting the requisite approvals.  It is interesting that neither has stepped up - I'm sure they liability scares the crap out of them.

It's hard to imagine the admin organizing this sort of event, since it doesn't exactly further the goals of the university. Student groups may think about it, but it would still be hard to imagine being sufficiently organized to run at the requisite scale.
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#27
(03-06-2018, 10:19 PM)plam Wrote:
(03-06-2018, 04:41 PM)NotStan Wrote: Totally agree.  The Ezra street party and Oktoberfest are at opposite ends of the spectrum of even trying to comply with the law.  If Laurier or UW wanted to have a "legal" party on their property, they could go about organizing it and getting the requisite approvals.  It is interesting that neither has stepped up - I'm sure they liability scares the crap out of them.

It's hard to imagine the admin organizing this sort of event, since it doesn't exactly further the goals of the university. Student groups may think about it, but it would still be hard to imagine being sufficiently organized to run at the requisite scale.
Exactly.  Some group would have to get an event permit and liquor license and set something up in a building or outdoors in a manner like the Oktoberfest tents that are licensed or like Ribfest.   There is really no where in the province where you can walk around with open alcohol - its always confined to private property or venues with controlled-entries (and the requisite security, etc)
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#28
I think this event grew in popularity because it is illegal.  It is exhilarating to drink unlawfully in public along with thousands of others.   It's a bit like a riot or a mob.  People do things they wouldn't do by themselves.  Normalizing this event would attract very few people.  They already have the choice to go to a bar or pub to drink green beer and some people do that.  But nobody gets bused in to Waterloo to go to a pup or to drink in a sanctioned beer tent.  That's not the point!  Besides, most of the time the 17th falls on a school day and it's not something the student union or administration would favour.
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#29
The Peel Region Public Safety Unit has been enlisted to help the WRPS. What could go wrong?

https://www.peelpolice.ca/en/aboutus/pub...tyunit.asp
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#30
On a completely unrelated note, I've only ever experienced crush capacities at outdoor events twice in Waterloo Region: the Buskers in the last few years when they were on King Street, and the Elmira Maple Syrup Festival when the weather was warm.
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