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Winter Walking and Cycling
(06-18-2018, 12:58 PM)MidTowner Wrote:
(06-18-2018, 10:19 AM)panamaniac Wrote: I believe that you are correct on both counts.  Re the first, however, the lack of prioritization seems logical (from a bureaucratic point of view) if the idea is to eventually implement 100% coverage - they need to gather data on all types/locations of sidewalks to provide a basis for full implementation.

My concern, identified by the City, is the increase in salt usage that will result from this.

How much salt could possibly be used in comparison with what's used on the roads? Logically, it would only be a small fraction. When it's brought up by the City and others, it seems like a red herring. Yes, reducing salt usage should be a consideration. Should it be the primary consideration? It obviously hasn't been in practice when it comes to keeping roads and parking lots clear.

Based on the City of Kitchener's Standard Drawings document (https://www.kitchener.ca/en/resourcesGen...il2015.pdf) a typical "local road" is 18m. 8.4 of that is two lanes of roadway, and 3 of that is two sidewalks, one on either side of the road. That's not a trivial amount of salt.

And if we assume that salt usage in Downtown Kitchener is representative, then there will literally be piles of salt on the sidewalk. I don't think that's entirely fair as DTK is typically salted by hand (well, shovel) and I'd expect the purchase of some dedicated plow/salt combination gear which can distribute less salt more reliably.

But increased salt usage is a reasonable environmental concern and should be taking into consideration. 

I'm still in favour of the notion myself. Better choices about when to salt, preparation using brine, possibly even times where they spread sand instead, and most importantly consistent, predictable cleaning of all sidewalks. That would be super nice.
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(06-18-2018, 04:37 PM)timc Wrote: I find it very difficult to keep the sidewalk cleared down to bare concrete without using salt.

I generally used some expensive eco stuff to keep my sidewalk clear of ice, but I found clearing the sidewalk early and often before many had walked on it, kept it mostly clear without melter, but my sidewalk wasn't that busy, so it was an easier case.

The city will definitely be using salt, but if applied smartly, they can limit how much.
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I find a flat-edged spade, in the right weather conditions, can clear to concrete without salt being needed. But it doesn't always work, so salt is still necessary at times.
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Opinion: Silent majority needs to speak out and demand better roadways

Rolleyes
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(06-18-2018, 05:58 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Opinion: Silent majority needs to speak out and demand better roadways

Rolleyes

I’m taking odds the letter writer would oppose vehemently any increase in taxes or imposition of user fees to funds the better roads he thinks he’s owed.
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I personally have to agree with him! #silentmajority
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(06-18-2018, 05:39 PM)KevinL Wrote: I find a flat-edged spade, in the right weather conditions, can clear to concrete without salt being needed. But it doesn't always work, so salt is still necessary at times.

Been doing this for years with the 'chopper' (what I call it anyways).
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(06-18-2018, 08:00 PM)creative Wrote: I personally have to agree with him! #silentmajority

No problem with that, as long as you don’t also want the city to fix or improve the roads. There is a lot of room for honest disagreement on how and to what extent roads, and every other government program, should be funded. What should not have a place in our public discourse is people who want the government to do more but also want their taxes lowered.
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It sure is easy for folks who can rely on their car traveling on roads plowed continually during a storm to dismiss the needs of those who don't have that luxury.

To all those folks, here's a question, would instead of a tax increase, agree to a reduction in service in road plowing to enable sidewalk plowing?
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Snowfall scenario in our neighbourhood, just outside of the downtown core. Light snowfall, sidewalks shovelled by homeowners, usually the night before or the next morning before they go to work. Roads usually plowed before they come home from work. Moderate to heavy snowfall, sidewalks cleared in the morning or end of day when people return from work. Roads plowed in 2 or 3 days depending on amount of snowfall. If sidewalk clearing is coordinated with road plowing, our sidewalks would be impassible for 2 days or more. Personally my belief is that most sidewalks that are not cleared are rental properties. I don't like the idea of subsidizing these rental property owners.
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(06-19-2018, 08:08 AM)creative Wrote: Snowfall scenario in our neighbourhood, just outside of the downtown core. Light snowfall, sidewalks shovelled by homeowners, usually the night before or the next morning before they go to work. Roads usually plowed before they come home from work. Moderate to heavy snowfall, sidewalks cleared in the morning or end of day when people return from work. Roads plowed in 2 or 3 days depending on amount of snowfall. If sidewalk clearing is coordinated with road plowing, our sidewalks would be impassible for 2 days or more. Personally my belief is that most sidewalks that are not cleared are rental properties. I don't like the idea of subsidizing these rental property owners.

City sidewalk plowing cannot reasonably be viewed as a subsidy to specific property owners. All property owners who currently shovel would benefit. Actually the ones who fulfill their responsibilities would benefit more than those who currently shirk — everybody’s taxes would go up a tiny bit, but the shirkers wouldn’t have an offsetting benefit of no longer needing to shovel. So if you really don’t like the idea of subsidizing those rental property owners, you will push for city plowing (or intensive enforcement, but I think it’s been pretty well established that just taking over the job will be more effective than enforcement).
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(06-19-2018, 08:08 AM)creative Wrote: Snowfall scenario in our neighbourhood, just outside of the downtown core. Light snowfall, sidewalks shovelled by homeowners, usually the night before or the next morning before they go to work. Roads usually plowed before they come home from work. Moderate to heavy snowfall, sidewalks cleared in the morning or end of day when people return from work. Roads plowed in 2 or 3 days depending on amount of snowfall. If sidewalk clearing is coordinated with road plowing, our sidewalks would be impassible for 2 days or more. Personally my belief is that most sidewalks that are not cleared are rental properties. I don't like the idea of subsidizing these rental property owners.

I don't like that idea either, but right now they're being subsidized, but the only ones paying are those who can't just get in their car to avoid it, and are paying with their mobility or even the freedom to leave their home.

Plowing both roads AND sidewalks isn't about property owners not having to do it, or pay or whatever, it's about the freedom of those in the city.  When we choose only to plow roads, we're choosing to exasperate the existing inequality in mobility.

It's also worth noting that if you actually look at the costs, and I mean, economic costs, you already pay far more to clear your sidewalk than the city tax increase would be.  Having every property owner manage clearing individually is far less efficient than having a plow run by and clear the whole sidewalk.  Now, most people value the incremental time to clear the sidewalk at 0 dollars, so they still feel they are paying more, but economically, that doesn't make sense.
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It will be interesting to see, in the area selected for sidewalk plowing this winter, how many people continue to shovel their own walks. I'm thinking there will be quite a few.
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(06-19-2018, 09:21 AM)panamaniac Wrote: It will be interesting to see, in the area selected for sidewalk plowing this winter, how many people continue to shovel their own walks.  I'm thinking there will be quite a few.

Certainly, when I lived in London, where they did sidewalk plowing, everyone on my street did clear the sidewalks, but it wasn't until the city plows came by that the corners were opened.
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I have to shovel my driveway anyways and the sidewalk only takes less than a minute to do in light snowfall and maybe a few minutes in heavier snowfall. It is also good exercise. I and most of my neighbours will continue to shovel our sidewalks along with our driveways so I don't see how we benefit! I am all for prompt clearing of sidewalks and tighter enforcement which I am sure would be far less expensive. Other than the increased cost of plowing, our neighbourhood would also end up with poorer clearing of sidewalks as we would have to wait for days after a heavy snowfall before our sidewalks would be clear.
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