General Road and Highway Discussion

[Canard]

How can road marking be seen in the event of snow covering the road?

How can road signs be seen if your eyes are closed?

[ijmorlan]

How can road marking be seen in the event of snow covering the road?

How can road signs be seen if your eyes are closed?

Um, I don’t mean to be disrespectful, but it should be obvious to the slowest observer that these are totally different: if snow is covering the road, drivers cannot see the marking; the only way they could obey them is if they happen to know they are there. By contrast, if a driver has their eyes closed, they can easily correct that situation by opening them. Are you suggesting that drivers should carry a shovel with them so they can clear the snow from every intersection they meet before navigating it?

[trainspotter139]

Road markings for turn lanes are not regulatory. Lanes that are indicated with a regulatory sign (white on black) are the ones that have to be obeyed.

Road markings are regulatory and enforceable. One must travel in the direction of the arrows painted on the road and one must not leave the lane if the lane is marked with a solid white line.

[KevinL]

If a road has enough snow that plowing/salting has not been able to uncover its markings, you should be already driving with a high abundance of caution.

[jamincan]

Aside from the dispute above about whether lane markings for turning are regulatory or not, you'd also be passing on the right (arguable) and changing lanes in an intersection.

[danbrotherston]

Road markings for turn lanes are not regulatory. Lanes that are indicated with a regulatory sign (white on black) are the ones that have to be obeyed.

Road markings are regulatory and enforceable. One must travel in the direction of the arrows painted on the road and one must not leave the lane if the lane is marked with a solid white line.

I believe you will find that all enforceable road markings have signs as well, "right turn only", "no passing", "stop here on red" for example, and I think it is the sign which is enforced.

Also worth noting, apparently not all signs are enforceable either, I believe yellow backed signs aren't enforced, for example, WPRS refuses to even acknowledge the existence of the "single file" sign on King St.

[Canard]

Aside from the dispute above about whether lane markings for turning are regulatory or not, you'd also be passing on the right (arguable) and changing lanes in an intersection.

Passing on the right doesn't apply, otherwise Left Turn Lanes would basically result in all traffic stopping completely.

(my thought on "passing on the right" has always been... if I'm on the highway and I'm able to pass you on the right, you're doing something wrong. I keep to the right, which is the law, BTW - and if I'm able to overtake you because you're moving slower than me and you're not in the right lane, that's your fault for not following the rules, not mine. I had a friend slam on the brakes once in the right lane doing 105 in fear he might go past a truck that was parked in the middle lane doing 90 km/h on 401 once... made me shake my head.)

But back to the question at hand, so, there seems to be some ambiguity if road lane markings are legally binding or not.

So if they're not, what happens if people in both lanes go straight through, and merge together and cause a crash? Who's fault is it then? Sounds like it would be the fault of the person who didn't follow the lane markings.

[Canard]

Also worth noting, apparently not all signs are enforceable either, I believe yellow backed signs aren't enforced, for example

Correct, yellow speed signs are recommended signs - which is why it's perfectly fine to drive 500 km/h on an On-Ramp. You'd just better make sure you snub it up before you merge into the (white-sign speed posted) highway, though!

[jwilliamson]

https://www.ontario.ca/document/official...t-markings

   A white arrow painted on a lane means you may move only in the direction of the arrow.

[KevinL]

 it's perfectly fine to drive 500 km/h on an On-Ramp

Facetiousness aside, with no other limit posted it should be considered as 80km/h (or 50 km/h in urban areas).

[Canard]

Your 80/50 rule only applies to rural roads and city roads. I was talking about the yellow recommendation signs on ramps.

(Thanks, jwiliamson!)

[SammyOES]

Just to continue this derail / traffic lesson -> I'm pretty sure passing on the right is totally legal. It's just obviously less safe and so generally not recommended in places where it makes sense to pass on the left instead.

[kps]

1. Kitborn is (regrettably) right about turn lane signs.
   

   154 (1) ( c ) any lane may be designated for slowly moving traffic, traffic moving in a particular direction or classes or types of vehicles and, despite section 141, where a lane is so designated and official signs indicating the designation are erected, every driver shall obey the instructions on the official signs.

   
   
2. There is a sign on Charles.
   

[Coke6pk]

Your 80/50 rule only applies to rural roads and city roads. I was talking about the yellow recommendation signs on ramps.

(Thanks, jwiliamson!)

I would say the HTA regulations (where actual speed limits are set), would show the highway speed as 100 km/h (or 90 kh/h in the case of the X-way).  The on-ramps are part of that highway, hence the enforceable speed limit is 100 or 90.  It is recommended you travel 80, but a 500 km/h drive would be an expensive day in court as you are effectively 400 (or 410) over the posted (in the regulations) speed limit.

Coke

[Coke6pk]

How can road marking be seen in the event of snow covering the road?

How can road signs be seen if your eyes are closed?

This is a legitimate comment.  From my by-law days, I can confirm, pavement markings are not always enforceable EXACTLY because of snow.

A blue painted spot with a disabled persons logo IS NOT ticketable.  There must be a sign in view of the driver.  Even in the middle of summer, when there is no snow.  Same reason we don't use "red curbs" for fire routes like they do down south.

That being said, we DID enforce "park in more than one space" if you straddled the parking line if it was a snow free day.  We would not write that ticket in the winter unless the lot was cleared down to pavement prior to the vehicle being parked AND at the time of enforcement.

Coke