The Shannondale (née Electrohome, 152 Shanley St) | 8 fl | U/C

[nms]

Christie Digital purchase some of the Electrohome assets in 1999, specifically Electrohome Projection Systems.

[timc]

Which makes no sense at all. A property cannot be sold for more than its worth to a bidder. So conceivably you could end up with an unsellable property, and indeed we might have such already.

I wonder what would happen if one were to expropriate a property with outstanding taxes. Could that work? Presumably the settlement would be set off against the taxes, so no actual payment would go to the former owner. Not a real estate lawyer, no idea how it actually works, just musing.

I'm no lawyer either, but I don't think the City has the legal footing to justify expropriation. It's a quandary, but I hope that something will get done with the lowered price and flexible zoning.

[ijmorlan]

Which makes no sense at all. A property cannot be sold for more than its worth to a bidder. So conceivably you could end up with an unsellable property, and indeed we might have such already.

I wonder what would happen if one were to expropriate a property with outstanding taxes. Could that work? Presumably the settlement would be set off against the taxes, so no actual payment would go to the former owner. Not a real estate lawyer, no idea how it actually works, just musing.

I'm no lawyer either, but I don't think the City has the legal footing to justify expropriation. It's a quandary, but I hope that something will get done with the lowered price and flexible zoning.

I’m not so sure. Toronto expropriated a bunch of buildings to build Dundas Square, a project which in no way had to be exactly where it is. Usually when I think of expropriation I think of something like a road, where they want to engineer the route of the road without worrying too much about who is going to be willing to sell. But at least some of the time it is clearly possible to do what we might call a “discretionary” expropriation. And obviously the current owner isn’t using the property, so I don’t think they can claim any sort of hardship or whatever. What if the City had a fully-owned development agency bid on the property auction? When I wish I ran into lawyers at parties more often…

[jeffster]

I'm no lawyer either, but I don't think the City has the legal footing to justify expropriation. It's a quandary, but I hope that something will get done with the lowered price and flexible zoning.

Well, they have done it before. Not sure how many remember the house with the long backyard at Stirling and Mill St. The guys entire backyard was a junkyard. However, it's not zoned as such. Eventually the city did expropriate the property, and that is where they built Mill-Courtland Community Centre. Perhaps doing it her is a great idea.

[panamaniac]

I'm no lawyer either, but I don't think the City has the legal footing to justify expropriation. It's a quandary, but I hope that something will get done with the lowered price and flexible zoning.

Well, they have done it before. Not sure how many remember the house with the long backyard at Stirling and Mill St. The guys entire backyard was a junkyard. However, it's not zoned as such. Eventually the city did expropriate the property, and that is where they built Mill-Courtland Community Centre. Perhaps doing it her is a great idea.

I think that's a bit different, as the Mill-Stirling expropriation would have been for a municipal facillity.  I don't think the City has suggested anything other than private development for the Shanley St siite.

[jamincan]

There were loads of urban renewal projects that basically saw neighbourhoods razed for private developments. Have the rules changed since then?

[ijmorlan]

Well, they have done it before. Not sure how many remember the house with the long backyard at Stirling and Mill St. The guys entire backyard was a junkyard. However, it's not zoned as such. Eventually the city did expropriate the property, and that is where they built Mill-Courtland Community Centre. Perhaps doing it her is a great idea.

I think that's a bit different, as the Mill-Stirling expropriation would have been for a municipal facillity.  I don't think the City has suggested anything other than private development for the Shanley St siite.

They could propose a municipal facility. If the plans change after the expropriation, that’s just one of those things.

Would the property owner really even fight an expropriation? If so, why?

[plam]

In the US it's called "eminent domain" and they do it for private investments. There have been cases on that (got ruled OK). Don't know the boundaries of expropriation in Canada...

[Momo26]

Is an old factory like this game to be turned into lofts? Would an owner have to still apply for the particular permits? Is it permitted to be demolished?

Would you guys consider it to be just outside of the innovation district/DTK or still a desirable geography?

[panamaniac]

Would the city be able to avoid cleaning up the site if it turned it into a public park?

[Spokes]

Is an old factory like this game to be turned into lofts? Would an owner have to still apply for the particular permits? Is it permitted to be demolished?

Would you guys consider it to be just outside of the innovation district/DTK or still a desirable geography?

I don't know anything about the inside of the building, but I would think it could be possible.  Who knows what it costs.  I would guess there are no permits issued for it right now for anything.  No building permits because there's no proposal.  Demolition permits I don't think so either.  Is it heritage protected?

As far as location.  I would consider it just outside of the innovation district, but easily walkable.  (800 meters)

[jeffster]

Has anyone seen the proposal (or more correctly, what the city envisions) for Electrohome? They have a picture on floor 6 at city hall, just get off the elevator and go towards College St, the pictures are to your right in the lobby alcove.

[Spokes]

Is it different than the renders at the start of this thread?

[zanate]

Interesting idea, to expropriate the factory for some sort of public work. But that means you've got a public work project to put there. So instead of not getting the city's owed tax money back, now the city has to spend money to rehab it and come up with something we may not need to build on it? Ouch. Not something I want on my tax bill.

Also this is not the only site like this in Kitchener.

I heard some interesting things recently about a contaminated site behind the UW School of Pharmacy which is apparently owned by a company called PolyOne. Apparently, the owner would be entirely happy to have the property assumed by the city, but then the city would have a property that can't be used without remediation, and the city would lose the tax income from it.

I did a little digging and this property is assessed at $1.7M, so it should tell you something that the owner is willing to let it be assumed. It's also a property at the heart of a construction boom, but there's nothing going with it that I'm aware of. The company lists this property as a "remediation property"-- one of dozens it has, by the way.

So, Electrohome is not the only unsellable property in the region, and creative reuse can't deal with it all. Some of these properties are just going to sit fallow until the economic viability of rehabilitating them exceeds the cost to do so, and the public purse can't bail us out of the sins of our past.

[tomh009]

I heard some interesting things recently about a contaminated site behind the UW School of Pharmacy which is apparently owned by a company called PolyOne. Apparently, the owner would be entirely happy to have the property assumed by the city, but then the city would have a property that can't be used without remediation, and the city would lose the tax income from it.

Maybe the happiest outcome would be to use that for a parking structure for the transit hub. The city would need to expropriate a bit of land from the neighbouring property to make a driveway from Joseph St, but that should be doable.