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Cycling in Waterloo Region
(09-16-2019, 12:14 PM)danbrotherston Wrote:
(09-16-2019, 12:07 PM)plam Wrote: To bring it back to victim-shaming, I do think that biking at night without lights is a fact that is relevant in collision reporting. More than helmets to be sure. The reason is that lights actually do something.

I might agree, although it is still questionable.  For example, would clothing be valid to mention? There is no legal requirement, but a driver got away with killing a cyclist on the claim that the cyclist "wore dark clothing", even though by all accounts, they probably had a light. (this is absolutely true, no exaggeration, a driver killed a cyclist on King, the crown dropped charges when the driver made "the cyclist wore dark clothing" a defense, and folks here wonder why I'm sensitive about these issues).

Basically, every possible excuse is given to drivers who hit people, nobody ever asks "shouldn't that driver have been able to see the cyclist, with a light, on the well lit street, why were they unable to operate their vehicle safely...."

Is it a get-out-of-jail-free card? I have trouble with that. Probably not. But I have no qualms in saying that people really should have lights on their bike. I have more qualms with saying that people should wear helmets.

(Ever noticed how a lot of bikes have lame stickers telling people not to ride at night?)
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So if I would have hit that guy, who had no light, who I could not see, and killed him, I would be at fault? If we all agree that there are poor drivers on the road, shouldn’t we not do everything possible to make sure that we are seen? And yes he was wearing dark clothing which contributed to me not being able to see him. I chose not to mention this, until this was brought up, as I did not want to offend anyone by “shaming” this cyclist! Can you please provide a link to the story of the guy who got off because the cyclist was wearing dark clothing but did have a light on his bike because this would interest me.
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It's well known that careless driving is nearly impossible to prosecute in Ontario, and most drivers never face anything more than a failure to yield charge and $500 fine for killing pedestrians and cyclists. The driver who killed Robert Linsley got off scot-free because Linsley was wearing dark clothing and a streetlight was burned out. Facebook commenters applauded the Crown for "finally getting it right".

https://www.kitchenerpost.ca/news-story/...o-cyclist/
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(09-16-2019, 02:15 PM)creative Wrote: So if I would have hit that guy, who had no light, who I could not see, and killed him, I would be at fault? If we all agree that there are poor drivers on the road, shouldn’t we not do everything possible to make sure that we are seen? And yes he was wearing dark clothing which contributed to me not being able to see him. I chose not to mention this, until this was brought up, as I did not want to offend anyone by “shaming” this cyclist! Can you please provide a link to the story of the guy who got off because the cyclist was wearing dark clothing but did have a light on his bike because this would interest me.

No, not under the law, but frankly, if you're driving in such a manner that you end up killing a person on a neighbourhood street, I feel like you should feel be responsible for that, no matter the circumstances, it's a neighbourhood street, pedestrians aren't required to carry lights. Maybe the thing you should learn from this experience should be that slowing down is a good idea.
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Oh my god. You were not there and you are judging me! You have no facts as to lighting conditions plus you automatically assumed that I was driving erratically and speeding because, well I was driving a car and ALL drivers are the same. But then again you are an expert on everything so I guess that you are right again! WRC PMC
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(09-16-2019, 03:48 PM)creative Wrote: Oh my god. You were not there and you are judging me! You have no facts as to lighting conditions plus you automatically assumed that I was driving erratically and speeding because, well I was driving a car and ALL drivers are the same. But then again you are an expert on everything so I guess that you are right again! WRC PMC

Yes, I am judging you, and I'm judging you based on your statement only.  You turned onto YOUR street, and apparently nearly hit someone. You live there, so I assume it's residential, you should not be nearly hitting anyone in a residential street.

When I went to drivers ed, I was taught, drive slowly in a residential area, a child may run out at any moment, even if I'm not legally at fault, I should never be driving in a way that means I might kill a child. That cyclist could just as easily have been a child.

Ironic, since you were just arguing that suggesting people wear helmets (something which doesn't prevent collisions) is fine, and not victim blaming at all, but when I suggest to you a way in which you can be more safe on the road, you get all defensive, and you aren't even the victim.
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I also took driver education and was taught to be a defensive driver, always looking to avoid potential collisions with cars, cyclists and pedestrians. As a cyclist and pedestrian I also practice defensive cycling and walking knowing that there are poor drivers out there. I believe that it is everyone’s responsibility to stay safe. Yes I wear a helmet when I cycle. Yes I try to wear brighter clothing whenever possible. When I am walking I never assume that a driver will give me the right of way at a corner. I always try to make eye contact with the driver. I try to do the same thing when ever possible when cycling. No one is saying that you wear bright clothing. As a driver I can tell you that it is much easier for me to see you. If you don’t want to use a light on your bike that is your decision. My experience as a defensive driver is that it is much easier to see you if you do.
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Did anyone catch that cyclist dashcam video on Reddit yesterday? OP just posted an update claiming WRPS told them the cyclist was completely at fault because it's a "shared lane" and cyclists aren't allowed to pass cars on the right when there isn't a bike lane, and that "helmet charges are at officer's discretion". They also deleted the video and refused to clarify whether they activated their turn signal before right hooking the cyclist, who had just nearly been run off the road by another driver.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...near_batl/

Luckily I saved a copy of the video. You may have to turn on the audio, but it sure sounds like they didn't signal their turn.

https://i.imgur.com/qUOEkyX.mp4
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(09-17-2019, 12:43 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Did anyone catch that cyclist dashcam video on Reddit yesterday? OP just posted an update claiming WRPS told them the cyclist was completely at fault because it's a "shared lane" and cyclists aren't allowed to pass cars on the right when there isn't a bike lane, and that "helmet charges are at officer's discretion". They also deleted the video and refused to clarify whether they activated their turn signal before right hooking the cyclist, who had just nearly been run off the road by another driver.

https://www.reddit.com/r/waterloo/commen...near_batl/

Luckily I saved a copy of the video. You may have to turn on the audio, but it sure sounds like they didn't signal their turn.

https://i.imgur.com/qUOEkyX.mp4

Yeah, I did see that. The question of passing on the right used to be clear (bike lane: YES, shared lane: NO), but now that cyclists can use the "shoulder" legally, it's a lot less clear, when does something become a shoulder--although this lack of clarity at least means the law matches reality.

Of course, the claim that helmet charges are at police discrection really throws doubt on everything, given that there is no legal requirement to wear a helmet.
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I don't care if I can legally pass on the right I won't put myself in that situation.
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(09-17-2019, 01:17 PM)clasher Wrote: I don't care if I can legally pass on the right I won't put myself in that situation.

I was just about to post the same.

Law aside, it's just poor judgement to pass on the right... especially approaching an intersection!
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Now we've gone straight back to victim blaming instead of actually discussing the issue. Yes, it's poor judgment to pass cars at intersections like this on a bike, but that doesn't give drivers carte blanche to right hook cyclists. I posted the link and video because it appears to show the driver not signalling their turn despite what they claim in the title, and they later updated to say WRPS told them the cyclist was 100% at fault along with the nonsense about helmet laws.
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(09-17-2019, 01:32 PM)Bob_McBob Wrote: Now we've gone straight back to victim blaming instead of actually discussing the issue. Yes, it's poor judgment to pass cars at intersections like this on a bike, but that doesn't give drivers carte blanche to right hook cyclists. I posted the link and video because it appears to show the driver not signalling their turn despite what they claim in the title, and they later updated to say WRPS told them the cyclist was 100% at fault along with the nonsense about helmet laws.

At this point, it's basically a reflex.

By the way, how does one even ride then? Given I was hit by a driver who overtook me and turned right (something I cannot even prevent) I am now utterly terrified when proceeding through an intersection, so often drivers do not signal, ones who do, overtake, signal and then wait, then we both stop.

Honestly, this is the most stressful part of cycling for me.
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I have had cars pass me from behind and right hook right in front of me.
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It’s a common occurrence. I had it happen once pretty egregiously at a driveway (so I wasn’t expecting the possibility). I was able to stop in time, but just: I nearly crashed into the passenger door.
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