Cycling in Waterloo Region

[robdrimmie]

By the way, how does one even ride then? Given I was hit by a driver who overtook me and turned right (something I cannot even prevent) I am now utterly terrified when proceeding through an intersection, so often drivers do not signal, ones who do, overtake, signal and then wait, then we both stop.

The following behaviour is no guarantee, but it's the practice I currently try to follow in a busy intersection like this one. Ultimately, I take the lane and progress through as part of the line of traffic.

If it's going to take a few cycles for everyone to get through, and if cars are able to move faster than me, I'll move to the right again so cars can pass me before we all stop again. If I am pretty confident I'm going to get through the light cycle, I'll stay in the lane through the intersection. If I think I'm going to slow down a lot of cars I'll just slow down and let them pass and take a spot in line near the front for the next cycle. This last case happens very rarely and most of the time in a slow intersection like this traffic is slow the whole way, so I just stick in my spot.

My goal is that when I go through an intersection everyone knows where I am and what I'm going to do. I figure if I'm directly in front of a specific vehicle the entire time, and as long as I'm not going any slower than the vehicle in front of me for very long, then the odds are much better that driver is going to know I'm there and therefore I'm much safer.

Edit to add: It's also why, when I'm driving and approaching a right turn, at a certain point - when I reach a certain amount of confidence that I'll make it through the intersection during the current phase of the light cycle - I will just take up all the space on the right-hand side of the lane. If there's a bike lane, when it goes dashed I'm right in it to be very explicit about what I'm doing.

[danbrotherston]

I have had cars pass me from behind and right hook right in front of me.

It’s a common occurrence. I had it happen once pretty egregiously at a driveway (so I wasn’t expecting the possibility). I was able to stop in time, but just: I nearly crashed into the passenger door.

You're not helping guys

[jamincan]

It's possible to discuss ways that we can be proactive in avoiding injury without being guilty of victim blaming.

Not filtering on the right is a good one. But in any situation when I'm proceeding faster than traffic, even when in a bike lane, I'm *extremely* conscientious of what traffic next to me is doing. I still try to be aware otherwise, but I feel the risk of a right hook is less when traffic is overtaking me.

[Bob_McBob]

I think it's extremely valuable to discuss how to ride safely in this situation, but it's also quite telling the discussion immediately shifted to what the cyclist did wrong rather than any inappropriate actions on the part of the driver, or even what WRPS apparently told the driver.

[danbrotherston]

I think it's extremely valuable to discuss how to ride safely in this situation, but it's also quite telling the discussion immediately shifted to what the cyclist did wrong rather than any inappropriate actions on the part of the driver, or even what WRPS apparently told the driver.

Also in the context of the "I'd never do this" which is almost certainly untrue, I don't know any cyclist who would stop at the end of a long queue of traffic and sit and wait with an empty bike lane in front of them. If you cannot proceed in that situation, our roads are entirely broken...

[Section ThirtyOne]

Now we've gone straight back to victim blaming instead of actually discussing the issue. Yes, it's poor judgment to pass cars at intersections like this on a bike, but that doesn't give drivers carte blanche to right hook cyclists. I posted the link and video because it appears to show the driver not signalling their turn despite what they claim in the title, and they later updated to say WRPS told them the cyclist was 100% at fault along with the nonsense about helmet laws.

As a cyclist myself, I can confidently state that the person on the bike was in the wrong here. Signal or no signal. Helmet or no helmet.

[Section ThirtyOne]

I have had cars pass me from behind and right hook right in front of me.

This is a very different scenario, and the driver would be 100% in the wrong.

[Section ThirtyOne]

I think it's extremely valuable to discuss how to ride safely in this situation, but it's also quite telling the discussion immediately shifted to what the cyclist did wrong rather than any inappropriate actions on the part of the driver, or even what WRPS apparently told the driver.

Also in the context of the "I'd never do this" which is almost certainly untrue, I don't know any cyclist who would stop at the end of a long queue of traffic and sit and wait with an empty bike lane in front of them. If you cannot proceed in that situation, our roads are entirely broken...

There is no bike lane in the posted video.

And when there is no bike lane, I do exactly that. Wait at the end of the queue as if I was a car.

[danbrotherston]

Also in the context of the "I'd never do this" which is almost certainly untrue, I don't know any cyclist who would stop at the end of a long queue of traffic and sit and wait with an empty bike lane in front of them. If you cannot proceed in that situation, our roads are entirely broken...

There is no bike lane in the posted video.

And when there is no bike lane, I do exactly that. Wait at the end of the queue as if I was a car.

"Law aside, it's just poor judgement to pass on the right... especially approaching an intersection!"

You didn't say "if there was no bike lane"....the point is, you can get in exactly the same situation in a bike lane.  Now you're saying there are contexts in which you may put yourself in that situation, which is why I said "I'd never do this" is almost certainly untrue.

As a cyclist, I'm quite sure you know drivers usually don't check for cyclists when turning even if there is a bike lane.

[clasher]

Now we've gone straight back to victim blaming instead of actually discussing the issue. Yes, it's poor judgment to pass cars at intersections like this on a bike, but that doesn't give drivers carte blanche to right hook cyclists. I posted the link and video because it appears to show the driver not signalling their turn despite what they claim in the title, and they later updated to say WRPS told them the cyclist was 100% at fault along with the nonsense about helmet laws.

Way to put words in my mouth.

I don't pass on the right because I feel like it increases the chances of me getting right-hooked... that was my experience when I used to do it. Now I don't and it's a lot less common for me and I ride a lot more nowadays then I used to.

I don't agree with a lot of the "vehicular cycling" stuff but I think that "taking the lane" when you're queuing up at a light makes it a lot less likely that you'll get right-hooked. Cars would have to swerve into oncoming traffic or plow right into you from behind to make their turn... less people are likely to do that since there are still a few drivers out there that do manage to keep their eyes on the road ahead.

[danbrotherston]

Now we've gone straight back to victim blaming instead of actually discussing the issue. Yes, it's poor judgment to pass cars at intersections like this on a bike, but that doesn't give drivers carte blanche to right hook cyclists. I posted the link and video because it appears to show the driver not signalling their turn despite what they claim in the title, and they later updated to say WRPS told them the cyclist was 100% at fault along with the nonsense about helmet laws.

Way to put words in my mouth.

I don't pass on the right because I feel like it increases the chances of me getting right-hooked... that was my experience when I used to do it. Now I don't and it's a lot less common for me and I ride a lot more nowadays then I used to.

I don't agree with a lot of the "vehicular cycling" stuff but I think that "taking the lane" when you're queuing up at a light makes it a lot less likely that you'll get right-hooked. Cars would have to swerve into oncoming traffic or plow right into you from behind to make their turn... less people are likely to do that since there are still a few drivers out there that do manage to keep their eyes on the road ahead.

In a wide lane such as this however, how do you stop cars from passing you, and then when traffic is moving slowly like this, you're riding beside them, nothing you can do to stop that.

[clasher]

Way to put words in my mouth.

I don't pass on the right because I feel like it increases the chances of me getting right-hooked... that was my experience when I used to do it. Now I don't and it's a lot less common for me and I ride a lot more nowadays then I used to.

I don't agree with a lot of the "vehicular cycling" stuff but I think that "taking the lane" when you're queuing up at a light makes it a lot less likely that you'll get right-hooked. Cars would have to swerve into oncoming traffic or plow right into you from behind to make their turn... less people are likely to do that since there are still a few drivers out there that do manage to keep their eyes on the road ahead.

In a wide lane such as this however, how do you stop cars from passing you, and then when traffic is moving slowly like this, you're riding beside them, nothing you can do to stop that.

If the cyclist is a metre or more from the curb then the cars behind have to pass into the other lane to get around you. On Park in that video the cars would have to swerve into oncoming traffic and most drivers aren't that stupid. I also have a mirror and do shoulder checks when I'm in a situation like this with traffic. I don't think it's victim blaming for me to try and explain how I try to avoid injury but if you and bobmcbob want to use that as a platform to pontificate some more be my guest.

[Bob_McBob]

I didn't put words in anyone's mouth. If I post about an incident involving a cyclist and people immediately chime in with what the cyclist did wrong, and how they don't behave that way then yes, I'll "pontificate" about that observation. This kind of thing is a particular concern in the cycling community, where people seem conditioned to automatically distance themselves from other cyclists doing anything that the public could perceive as bad. The most vulnerable road users should not be throwing each other under a bus at the drop of a hat because of public scrutiny, but that's exactly what happens, and it makes it harder to have real discussions about improving road safety. Quite frankly it's stressful posting anything in this thread because I know a bunch of people are probably going to jump down my throat over some perceived slight instead of taking the time to actually discuss the issue.

[clasher]

Here's a pro-tip to avoid getting right-hooked: don't zoom by a line of cars on the right when they're stopped at a light. Even if you see a turn signal coming down that hill on Park where this particular incident happens leaves little time to react.

I don't know what you would do with road design to prevent this sort of thing. Even if a driver did a shoulder check it's quite possible in this location a fast cyclist could be going 35-45km/h and that's enough time for someone in car to shoulder-check, not see a cyclist, and start their turn. A rider going that speed would need fast reflexes and great brakes to stop in time. Someone going fast down a line of cars like that isn't going to have a lot of time to see a turn signal and could quite easily miss seeing one...

Y'all are clamouring for drivers to be better trained and to make more effort to look... sometimes that goes for cyclists too, and this rider could have saved themselves a bit of pain by not riding like this. Sorry that stresses you out but as a someone that rides a bike I can't ignore poor cycling choices leading to poor outcomes.

[plam]

I don't agree with a lot of the "vehicular cycling" stuff but I think that "taking the lane" when you're queuing up at a light makes it a lot less likely that you'll get right-hooked. Cars would have to swerve into oncoming traffic or plow right into you from behind to make their turn... less people are likely to do that since there are still a few drivers out there that do manage to keep their eyes on the road ahead.

Another perspective: when I was taking motorcycle lessons they told us to be super vigilant about cars coming and plowing right into you when you are stopped at a light. The mitigation was to always leave yourself a bike length of room so that you could escape (by driving between two lanes of traffic), to be sure your brake light was on, and to constantly check for cars coming behind you. That of course doesn't work as well on a bicycle because we don't have the acceleration to get away quickly enough. But, not just a bicycle problem.

(I generally do not like to take the lane at a light on a bicycle but I am also vigilant about being right hooked).