Grand River Transit

[danbrotherston]

Oh, yeah, and what’s this “filthy public transit” nonsense? I agree that we should spend more on maintenance and cleaning, even pre-Covid (i.e., transit funding should be higher), but it’s a bit rich for somebody to call public transit filthy given the amount of pollution caused by car operation.

I took it as a bus or LRT train having a higher likelihood of COVID-19 transmission than a single-person private car. But maybe my interpretation was wrong?

Using the word filthy does not express that, yes, that is probably what they meant, but it is not what they said.  The word choice seems intentional, wrt to transit.

[tomh009]

I took it as a bus or LRT train having a higher likelihood of COVID-19 transmission than a single-person private car. But maybe my interpretation was wrong?

Using the word filthy does not express that, yes, that is probably what they meant, but it is not what they said.  The word choice seems intentional, wrt to transit.

Yes ... assuming that my interpretation was correct, that is definitely not the most appropriate word.

[tomh009]

Roads/transportation discussion now moved into its own "Road design, transportation and walkability" thread.
https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/...p?tid=1473

[KevinT]

Roads/transportation discussion now moved into its own "Road design, transportation and walkability" thread.
https://www.waterlooregionconnected.com/...p?tid=1473

Thanks, it had gotten way out of hand.

[bgb_ca]

To get back on topic, looks like GRT is reducing service again.

May service reductions

Further service reductions will go into effect on May 18, 2020.

Updated schedules have been added to trip planning tools and the Schedules page: grt.ca/schedules

The following service changes will go into effect on Monday, May 18 and will remain in effect until further notice:

• Route 3, 4, 9, 13, 19, 22, 56, 57, 60 - reduced frequency on weekday evenings to every 60 minutes.
  
  
• Route 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 16, 19, 28, 201, 206 - trips departing after midnight cancelled 7 days a week.
  
  
• Route 301 ION light rail - trips departing after midnight cancelled - starting Sunday, May 17.
  
  
• Route 7 – short turn trips between Conestoga Station and Waterloo Public Square removed during weekday evening peak.
  
  
• Route 26 – weekday late evening service cancelled.
  
  
• Route 55 – reduced to run one-way only (counterclockwise, via Churchill).
  
  
• Route 203 – service between Sportsworld Station and Conestoga College removed during weekday midday.
  
  
• Route 73, 76, 901 – all service cancelled.
  
  
• Route 9, 13, 19 - reduced frequency on Sundays to every 60 minutes
  

[KevinL]

Oof, that's losing a lot of the frequency and late-evening gains of the last several years. This had better be considered purely temporary for the duration of the emergency only...

[Momo26]

A lot of gains in public transit service - I'm sure some after years and years of constant requests and drop ins to council meetings by riders - wiped out.

I agree, hopefully temporary.

Without studying all the routes and times - hopefully for some or majority, small(ish) adjustments can be made to mitigate additional time and walking needed.

[danbrotherston]

A lot of gains in public transit service - I'm sure some after years and years of constant requests and drop ins to council meetings by riders - wiped out.

I agree, hopefully temporary.

Without studying all the routes and times - hopefully for some or majority, small(ish) adjustments can be made to mitigate additional time and walking needed.

I certainly hope so.

I'll say it again, AFAIK not one single road widening project has been cancelled at a regional level. This region's priorities are crystal clear.

[Momo26]

Then unless every new job opens up between Scott and Victoria or Union and Uni and everyone who takes these jobs decides to live a walking distance from those points (primary zones of new core dev ops), city will be a congested nightmare. Think 50 to 100 years ahead. Expand LRT within K-W with 8 or so 'branches' off the mainline (reduces need for cars and busses). Lots of opportunities.

[taylortbb]

A lot of gains in public transit service - I'm sure some after years and years of constant requests and drop ins to council meetings by riders - wiped out.

I agree, hopefully temporary.

Without studying all the routes and times - hopefully for some or majority, small(ish) adjustments can be made to mitigate additional time and walking needed.

I certainly hope so.

I'll say it again, AFAIK not one single road widening project has been cancelled at a regional level. This region's priorities are crystal clear.

As much as I'm normally a transit advocate, there are some legitimate differences between operational and capital expenditures. If this is a permanent rollback of transit service it's terrible, but a temporary suspension of a service when demand for that service has dropped sharply isn't comparable to cancelling a capital project. As far as I know transit capital projects, like new buses, the new bus garage, ION phase 2 planning, etc are still proceeding as before. Even though with the service cutbacks a new garage is hardly necessary, the expectation is that the cutbacks are temporary and the full schedule will be reinstated soon enough, and the garage will be well used.

There's lots of legitimate criticism to go around of how the region prioritizes roads excessively, being upset about operational adjustments I think just undercuts the criticism when real issues are pointed out. I think asking "why are we spending all this money on road capital projects, when trail usage is soaring during the pandemic and we need to expand trails" is a much fairer issue with the region's priorities.

[danbrotherston]

I certainly hope so.

I'll say it again, AFAIK not one single road widening project has been cancelled at a regional level. This region's priorities are crystal clear.

As much as I'm normally a transit advocate, there are some legitimate differences between operational and capital expenditures. If this is a permanent rollback of transit service it's terrible, but a temporary suspension of a service when demand for that service has dropped sharply isn't comparable to cancelling a capital project. As far as I know transit capital projects, like new buses, the new bus garage, ION phase 2 planning, etc are still proceeding as before. Even though with the service cutbacks a new garage is hardly necessary, the expectation is that the cutbacks are temporary and the full schedule will be reinstated soon enough, and the garage will be well used.

There's lots of legitimate criticism to go around of how the region prioritizes roads excessively, being upset about operational adjustments I think just undercuts the criticism when real issues are pointed out. I think asking "why are we spending all this money on road capital projects, when trail usage is soaring during the pandemic and we need to expand trails" is a much fairer issue with the region's priorities.

You make an absolutely reasonable point. I think what I am expressing is my complete lack of faith in the region not to cut transit and cycling projects first, while roads remain sacrosanct.

That being said, I think cycling should be the top investment at the regional level over the next few years, followed by walking. Usually cycling is last, cars are first, and transit, is second, but transit is going to be set back substantially by this event for quite a while.  But I seriously doubt that will happen.

[tomh009]

Then unless every new job opens up between Scott and Victoria or Union and Uni and everyone who takes these jobs decides to live a walking distance from those points (primary zones of new core dev ops), city will be a congested nightmare. Think 50 to 100 years ahead. Expand LRT within K-W with 8 or so 'branches' off the mainline (reduces need for cars and busses). Lots of opportunities.

We can't build more LRT lines now based on needing them in 50 years, there is no way that would get approved (it wouldn't get approved for any other capital expenditures, either). What we need is good-quality bus transit that integrates with and complements the LRT. And GRT was moving in the right direction there, until the current pandemic.

[jeffster]

I took it as a bus or LRT train having a higher likelihood of COVID-19 transmission than a single-person private car. But maybe my interpretation was wrong?

Using the word filthy does not express that, yes, that is probably what they meant, but it is not what they said.  The word choice seems intentional, wrt to transit.

Not sure if that was referring to me, though I believe it was. When I said 'filthy' I meant it in a cleanliness context. I have two children, both older teens now, but one has a clean room, the other's room is filthy.

Definition of filthy: "disgustingly dirty"

And in this situation, I meant it as what Tom though: higher likelihood of cobvid-19 transmission than a single-person (or family) private car. I in NY City they believe the high rate of covid-19 and the high death toll may be partially blamed on the high demand on public transit.

In my kids case, the one disinfects her room 5x a day. The other, that's my job when I have the time. If covid-19 were to exist in this house, I know who to blame.

I do suppose you could use the word 'filthy' in the context of what some non-hybrid busses spew out. But that's not what I meant. Having spent a lot of time in Toronto and using the subway and street cars primarily, they spew nothing out, so generally I don't look at transit as being filthy from an environmental point of view.

[danbrotherston]

Using the word filthy does not express that, yes, that is probably what they meant, but it is not what they said.  The word choice seems intentional, wrt to transit.

Not sure if that was referring to me, though I believe it was. When I said 'filthy' I meant it in a cleanliness context. I have two children, both older teens now, but one has a clean room, the other's room is filthy.

Definition of filthy: "disgustingly dirty"

And in this situation, I meant it as what Tom though: higher likelihood of cobvid-19 transmission than a single-person (or family) private car. I in NY City they believe the high rate of covid-19 and the high death toll may be partially blamed on the high demand on public transit.

In my kids case, the one disinfects her room 5x a day. The other, that's my job when I have the time. If covid-19 were to exist in this house, I know who to blame.

I do suppose you could use the word 'filthy' in the context of what some non-hybrid busses spew out. But that's not what I meant. Having spent a lot of time in Toronto and using the subway and street cars primarily, they spew nothing out, so generally I don't look at transit as being filthy from an environmental point of view.

Given that I ride transit, I can tell you, "filthy" is not the appropriate term to use for it.

It's a public place, and as far as public places go, I'd describe it as, cleaner than average.

I have no idea why you're brining your kids into this, and suggesting that one would be to blame for COVID...the spreading is largely through person to person contact.  If your one child obsessively santized their room 5x per day, but still hung out in close proximity with other people, and the other never cleaned anything, but never went within 50 feet of another person, you'd be blaming the wrong one.

[ijmorlan]

And in this situation, I meant it as what Tom though: higher likelihood of cobvid-19 transmission than a single-person (or family) private car. I in NY City they believe the high rate of covid-19 and the high death toll may be partially blamed on the high demand on public transit.

Who believes? I recall there was some article that claimed the subway was a significant factor in NY’s high Covid rate, but another pointed out that looking at the details of which areas suffered the most showed that it was actually suburban areas with no subway service that specifically had the highest rates of transmission.