One Young (née Mayfair Hotel) | 5 fl | Complete

[Viewfromthe42]

As someone who goes to downtown Kitchener at least weekly, I can say that most of the time, I'm not bothered by anyone. Part of it is a conscious choice. There was an interesting statistic from recent years, showing that Canadians spent a consistent amount on dining out, but the year saw a net loss of independent restaurants, and a net gain of chains, with the ratio being something egregious like 20-50 independents closed for every chain opening. We keep thinking that we can be the ones to not vaccinate our children but still have others do so and protect us, keep thinking we can be the lone one who leaves downtown to shop at big box stores and others will keep downtown vibrant and safe by keeping jobs and businesses there. But eventually the things we think of as minor inconveniences we spared ourselves, they pile into lost jobs, worse communities, and not at all worth the "gain." I would hope we all live here because we are willing to work and fight to make this the best place it can be, not one where we shuffle off from any hardship, or turn away from all that isn't in our perfect interest, something I'm glad to see so many of the folks at council meetings and other interactions with the city still coming back after less-than-ideals or defeats. Jim Prentice changed the face of Alberta largely with one sentence. And it was true. If we want to know why things aren't as great as we'd like, we need to look in the mirror, and decide whether that spurs us to come up with a list of actions, or excuses.

[Markster]

Part of it is not simply a matter of "kicking out the undesirables". Simply outnumbering them does wonders for reducing the intimidation factor. A sketchy looking guy is more intimidating on an empty sidewalk, than a sidewalk teeming with other random shoppers.

My wife tells me that she still gets the occasional cat-call, or racial epithet. We've still got a little way to go, but that's not to say that downtown is the den of scum and villainy that people seem to remember from the bad old days.

[Owen]

Part of it is not simply a matter of "kicking out the undesirables".  Simply outnumbering them does wonders for reducing the intimidation factor. A sketchy looking guy is more intimidating on an empty sidewalk, than a sidewalk teeming with other random shoppers.

My wife tells me that she still gets the occasional cat-call, or racial epithet.  We've still got a little way to go, but that's not to say that downtown is the den of scum and villainy that people seem to remember from the bad old days.

Exactly... it comes back to destinations though - and retail is not the answer. I think the big shift in thinking is that 'shopping' is less and less of a destination these days - (I'd like to think that) People are getting over consumerism and shopping is driven more by necessities and novelties ... or maybe I'm just getting older ... but we've seen scores of retail stores come and go both in Uptown Waterloo and downtown Kitchener - people need other reasons to visit these places and they will start to do casual shopping once they're there. Starting with live/work in the downtown (the path we're on) is the right starting point and the rest will follow with a few nudges and incentives to assist in destination creation

[tomh009]

the victoria one apt building is mentioned, saying that it will help rejuvenate the downtown once ppl move in.

i doubt very much that just because it is located dpwntown, that it will 'help' make it any busier fpr stores. most ppl seem to go to the big box stores. there arent many places left downtown TO shop.. 

Maybe most people love big box stores ... but we shop at Costco once every few months, and maybe the same for Home Depot or Walmart.  Can't think of any other big boxes I have set foot in for the last year or so.

And if people live downtown, they will want to buy food somewhere (Waterloo Square, Central, New City) and eat out or go for a drink somewhere.  It doesn't mean that we need to have a Costco or Rona downtown.

it is also mentioned that the events held such as bluesfest etc also help..  i do not see how.. and even if they do, it only lasts the weekend it is held.. i cannot see how that would keep store-owners in business for the long term.

They help, because they get people downtown, and especially into downtown bars and restaurants.  If they like what they see, they will come back, to eat, drink -- and live downtown.

[Owen]

More on the topic from CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-...-1.3095428

[panamaniac]

I expect to see improvements Downtown over the next two years (including continued increases in employment, the renovated Walper and at least three or four more destination restaurants/better drinking establishments), but I suspect it will be more like four to five years before revitalization has really taken hold.

[tomh009]

More on the topic from CBC:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-...-1.3095428

Wow ... the comments are super negative.  I scarcely recognize the area where I have worked for the past five years!

[BuildingScout]

the victoria one apt building is mentioned, saying that it will help rejuvenate the downtown once ppl move in.

i doubt very much that just because it is located dpwntown, that it will 'help' make it any busier fpr stores.

most ppl seem to go to the big box stores. there arent many places left downtown TO shop..  

it is also mentioned that the events held such as bluesfest etc also help..

i do not see how.. and even if they do, it only lasts the weekend it is held.. i cannot see how that would keep store-owners in business for the long term.

and as someone in the article also mentioned, 'beautification' isnt going to fix everything..

who would come downtown just to 'look at' the newest green area?  oh, they might stay for a coffee or something.

I sense a lot of frustration there. One should point out that generally increasing density does lead to more people shopping locally. It depends a bit on how much the building interacts with the street. For example the Blue Springs Apaprtments in Waterloo bring exactly zero people to the neighbouring businesses. The Bauer lofts and the Seagram lofts have helped in the revitalization of Uptown Waterloo.

Festivals help in two ways: they bring customers for a few days, and bring people back to Downtown, some of which hadn't set a foot there in years. Once there they might find that they like Imbibe, or Gilt or the Irish pub next to the Beer Store and decide to visit more often.

As to visitors to green areas, isn't this what Victoria park is all about?

[BuildingScout]

I expect to see improvements Downtown over the next two years (including continued increases in employment, the renovated Walper and at least three or four more destination restaurants/better drinking establishments), but I suspect it will be more like four to five years before revitalization has really taken hold.

I agree. The place has improved tremendously from where it used to be, but it still has quite a ways to go before it really is a thriving destination.

[KWchick]

the victoria one apt building is mentioned, saying that it will help rejuvenate the downtown once ppl move in.

i doubt very much that just because it is located dpwntown, that it will 'help' make it any busier fpr stores. most ppl seem to go to the big box stores. there arent many places left downtown TO shop.. 

Maybe most people love big box stores ... but we shop at Costco once every few months, and maybe the same for Home Depot or Walmart.  Can't think of any other big boxes I have set foot in for the last year or so.

And if people live downtown, they will want to buy food somewhere (Waterloo Square, Central, New City) and eat out or go for a drink somewhere.  It doesn't mean that we need to have a Costco or Rona downtown.

it is also mentioned that the events held such as bluesfest etc also help..  i do not see how.. and even if they do, it only lasts the weekend it is held.. i cannot see how that would keep store-owners in business for the long term.

They help, because they get people downtown, and especially into downtown bars and restaurants.  If they like what they see, they will come back, to eat, drink -- and live downtown.

well i am not suggesting having a rona or something similar downtown..

but there used to be regular grocery stores downtown.. and hardware store.. and also i recall some pretty good places to eat.
anyone remember shlotzki's (sp?)
that just came to mind. there were other places.

and sure, ppl will go to bluesfest etc.. and they 'might' come back to shop... but there arent really any good places TO shop.
i dont know.
seems to me they have gotten rid of an awful lot of busy places...

doesnt anyone remember it being very busy down there? it sure was when i first came here..

and as for green spaces, i dont think one that is created by tearing down a building compares to victoria park at all.

hopefully, they leave the park alone!
but it wouldnt surprise me if they do something 'new and progressive' with that, too..

[KWchick]

the victoria one apt building is mentioned, saying that it will help rejuvenate the downtown once ppl move in.

i doubt very much that just because it is located dpwntown, that it will 'help' make it any busier fpr stores.

most ppl seem to go to the big box stores. there arent many places left downtown TO shop..  

it is also mentioned that the events held such as bluesfest etc also help..

i do not see how.. and even if they do, it only lasts the weekend it is held.. i cannot see how that would keep store-owners in business for the long term.

and as someone in the article also mentioned, 'beautification' isnt going to fix everything..

who would come downtown just to 'look at' the newest green area?  oh, they might stay for a coffee or something.

I sense a lot of frustration there. One should point out that generally increasing density does lead to more people shopping locally. It depends a bit on how much the building interacts with the street. For example the Blue Springs Apaprtments in Waterloo bring exactly zero people to the neighbouring businesses. The Bauer lofts and the Seagram lofts have helped in the revitalization of Uptown Waterloo.

Festivals help in two ways: they bring customers for a few days, and bring people back to Downtown, some of which hadn't set a foot there in years. Once there they might find that they like Imbibe, or Gilt or the Irish pub next to the Beer Store and decide to visit more often.

As to visitors to green areas, isn't this what Victoria park is all about?

yes.. i guess i do have some frustration about it all...

but i remember it being very busy and a fun place to go explore..
now it is just all being wiped out, one building at a time..
the stores downtown come and go like temp service jobs..

one opens, say a more fancy clothing store.. and you just know it will be closing again in a fe months or something.

i have seen lots of them doing that.

remember the davids gourmet store, where the old farah food mart was on gaukel?

when david's went in there, after it being vacant for years, i knew it wouldnt last.

i guess they hoped that because of the 'lofts and condos' ppl would want a more upscale shopping place..

but i knew they wouldnt go there. they likely dont shop downtown much at all.

so many examples of this, too many to even recall really...

and i put my reply about the green spaces you mentioned in my post to tom.. sorry about that lol.

[mpd618]

and sure, ppl will go to bluesfest etc.. and they 'might' come back to shop...  but there arent really any good places TO shop.  
i dont know.
seems to me they have gotten rid of an awful lot of busy places... 

There is no "they" that have gotten rid of grocery stores and hardware stores and such downtown. Given the proliferation of cars and the change in residential density towards the suburbs, the demand decreased and made many kinds of retail unviable. It will take a lot more residential density downtown to change that. And I don't think bringing people downtown to shop is a workable model, not to mention that Kitchener already tried this with all the downtown malls a few decades ago - to little success.

[panamaniac]

Meanwhile, at the Mayfair:

[KWchick]

and sure, ppl will go to bluesfest etc.. and they 'might' come back to shop...  but there arent really any good places TO shop.  
i dont know.
seems to me they have gotten rid of an awful lot of busy places... 

There is no "they" that have gotten rid of grocery stores and hardware stores and such downtown. Given the proliferation of cars and the change in residential density towards the suburbs, the demand decreased and made many kinds of retail unviable. It will take a lot more residential density downtown to change that. And I don't think bringing people downtown to shop is a workable model, not to mention that Kitchener already tried this with all the downtown malls a few decades ago - to little success.

well someone must have. decisions were made to close or tear down buildings. i cannot say why in each and every case of course.

i dont own a store downtown but i do read what the store owners have to say when they close. some cite rents being too high.. some just have little traffic.. depends on the store and circumstances..

and if bringing ppl downtown to patronize stores is not the answer then what is?

if ppl are not down there to shop, stores will close. seems kind of obvious, no..?

so what then will the dpwntown area end up becoming do you think..?

an LRT passageway to anywhere but downtown..?

that does not make a downtown thrive either.
and even if there were more residents in the area it does not mean they will shop there.

especially when, as i said, there are no grocery stores, for example.

even old country villages have a general store.

just because new buildings are going up, and it 'looks nicer' (in some ppl's opinions) that does not help
the store owners that are left pay the rent and stay open.

sorry but what the city seems to be doing makes no sense to me.

[tomh009]

remember the davids gourmet store, where the old farah food mart was on gaukel?
when david's went in there, after it being vacant for years, i knew it wouldnt last.
i guess they hoped that because of the 'lofts and condos' ppl would want a more upscale shopping place..
but i knew they wouldnt go there.  they likely dont shop downtown much at all.

David's Gourmet was too early: only the Kaufman Lofts was occupied then, as I recall, and that's not enough to make a difference.  Once City Centre and One Victoria are occupied (and Arrow Lofts already is), there will be a lot more people living in downtown Kitchener.  (But there is already competition for David's in the core, too much so, I think for them to succeed.)

As an aside, I'll be moving downtown soon -- and we plan to shop downtown as much as possible.  Between New City, Arcuense, Nougat and Vincenzo's, we won't need to go to Zehrs or Sobeys all that often.

but i remember it being very busy and a fun place to go explore..

now it is just all being wiped out, one building at a time..

My old memories of downtown Kitchener are quite different from yours.  Back in the late 70s, when I was in high school, the downtown, apart from Market Square, seemed largely run down, partly abandoned and not so much fun at all.  When was it a busy and fun place?