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Duke Tower Kitchener | 33fl | U/C
(11-16-2018, 12:23 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(11-16-2018, 11:59 AM)Viewfromthe42 Wrote: It's still a cost. It's never a "direct cost" when police have to come and deal with mental health issues, but they otherwise could be dealing with something else, so the cost is still there to the system.

All right … but can you calculate this "cost?" I can't.

It's difficult to calculate unless anyone had to work overtime. You can calculate; water, gas, wear & tear on all equipment + costs to citizens that needed to do the detour because of the road closure. It's not like Oktoberfest or the Ezra Street party where services are stretched thin and/or OT is required.

So I guess you could calculate two figures: Total costs which include costs being their regardless (existing wages, etc): Assuming 15 EMS staff (police, FD, utilities) at an average of $65/hour (wages plus benefits) for 10 hours, $9,750.00 and added expenses, water, gas for vehicles, wear and tear (especially the hoses), which I am assuming to be about 1/3 of the manpower costs, so about $3,300 for a total of about $13,050. The second figure only includes water, gas, W&T, and assume no OT: $3,300.

Someone suggested the related costs could house these individuals. I really wish it were that easy, but these problem are serious mental health issues/drug issues, etc. Many of them *could* find a place to sleep, but get kicked out because of behaviour issues. Housing is less of an issue in most of these cases.

I wouldn't be saying the above if I wasn't so intimately involved with the homeless over the past couple years. I am unsure if there is any real solution for many of the individuals.
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(11-16-2018, 02:52 PM)jeffster Wrote: Someone suggested the related costs could house these individuals.  I really wish it were that easy, but these problem are serious mental health issues/drug issues, etc. Many of them *could* find a place to sleep, but get kicked out because of behaviour issues.  Housing is less of an issue in most of these cases.

I wouldn't be saying the above if I wasn't so intimately involved with the homeless over the past couple years. I am unsure if there is any real solution for many of the individuals.

Indeed. Housing (which we do need more of) is only a part of the solution. Increased mental health services may help. Increasing both may significantly help reduce the homeless population, but not entirely eliminate the issue. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
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(11-16-2018, 03:03 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(11-16-2018, 02:52 PM)jeffster Wrote: Someone suggested the related costs could house these individuals.  I really wish it were that easy, but these problem are serious mental health issues/drug issues, etc. Many of them *could* find a place to sleep, but get kicked out because of behaviour issues.  Housing is less of an issue in most of these cases.

I wouldn't be saying the above if I wasn't so intimately involved with the homeless over the past couple years. I am unsure if there is any real solution for many of the individuals.

Indeed. Housing (which we do need more of) is only a part of the solution. Increased mental health services may help. Increasing both may significantly help reduce the homeless population, but not entirely eliminate the issue. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

You have to keep in mind that many of these homeless are homeless because they aren't allowed into shelter because of previous violence, or not adhering to the rules. Many do indeed have mental health issues too.
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(11-16-2018, 05:46 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote:
(11-16-2018, 03:03 PM)tomh009 Wrote: Indeed. Housing (which we do need more of) is only a part of the solution. Increased mental health services may help. Increasing both may significantly help reduce the homeless population, but not entirely eliminate the issue. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

You have to keep in mind that many of these homeless are homeless because they aren't allowed into shelter because of previous violence, or not adhering to the rules. Many do indeed have mental health issues too.

And some do not want to be in shelters.

It's not an easy problem. But we can't ignore it.
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(11-16-2018, 05:46 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote: You have to keep in mind that many of these homeless are homeless because they aren't allowed into shelter because of previous violence, or not adhering to the rules. Many do indeed have mental health issues too.

And in this case, they are people who don’t understand that you can’t have a campfire in a building. I say this not to say that we can therefore dismiss them and do nothing on the grounds that it’s their own fault; but rather to underscore how difficult the problem is. These aren’t people who would be just fine if there were more jobs around. I suspect even a guaranteed income wouldn’t be sufficient; they need more assistance than that.

How to provide that, and what form it should take, I really don’t know. I do know that there are people who know way more than I do about homelessness, and who actually work with homeless people regularly, who would have meaningful opinions on the matter.
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(11-16-2018, 06:47 PM)ijmorlan Wrote:
(11-16-2018, 05:46 PM)Rainrider22 Wrote: You have to keep in mind that many of these homeless are homeless because they aren't allowed into shelter because of previous violence, or not adhering to the rules. Many do indeed have mental health issues too.

And in this case, they are people who don’t understand that you can’t have a campfire in a building. I say this not to say that we can therefore dismiss them and do nothing on the grounds that it’s their own fault; but rather to underscore how difficult the problem is. These aren’t people who would be just fine if there were more jobs around. I suspect even a guaranteed income wouldn’t be sufficient; they need more assistance than that.

How to provide that, and what form it should take, I really don’t know. I do know that there are people who know way more than I do about homelessness, and who actually work with homeless people regularly, who would have meaningful opinions on the matter.

You are correct. Not an easy solution
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So I heard there is a condo planned for this site.
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(11-17-2018, 05:03 AM)rangersfan Wrote: So I heard there is a condo planned for this site.

Hopefully the city will allow for a building taller than 19 floors...
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(11-17-2018, 01:00 PM)jeffster Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 05:03 AM)rangersfan Wrote: So I heard there is a condo planned for this site.

Hopefully the city will allow for a building taller than 19 floors...

I heard this one might be over 21 floors !!
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(11-17-2018, 05:03 AM)rangersfan Wrote: So I heard there is a condo planned for this site.

Rangersfan, can we stick to homeless fires please?

/S
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(11-19-2018, 01:58 PM)Chris Wrote:
(11-17-2018, 05:03 AM)rangersfan Wrote: So I heard there is a condo planned for this site.

Rangersfan, can we stick to homeless fires please?

/S

Too funny...  If anyone is downtown, could they grab a few pics please if they are continuing demolition ?  I am out of town so I cant see the process
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I'm curious how fast they really speed up demo
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Last Friday

   
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Today around 4:30


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Have cities like Vancouver been successful at partnering with developers to encourage mixed demographic housing that could include space for either lower income housing or shelters and community services?
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