ION - Waterloo Region's Light Rail Transit

[Elmira Guy]

Another ION delay, but some good news is about a month away

http://www.570news.com/2017/09/05/anothe...onth-away/

[timc]

"you just can’t switch out vehicles the system has been built for this particular vehicle, the stations particularly are designed for the various dimensions of this specific vehicle it would be very expensive to switch," Galloway says

I have seen this before, and I don't doubt that everything has been built to match. I'm also not remotely suggesting that we should order trains from anywhere else. But every time I see it, it makes me wonder what the future plan is when it is time to replace our trains. Will we need to buy new trains that are exactly the same dimensions? Is it really that difficult to make a train that matches the tolerances of the system?

[panamaniac]

Another ION delay, but some good news is about a month away

http://www.570news.com/2017/09/05/anothe...onth-away/

Good news "if", as Galloway's comment indicates.

[KevinL]

"you just can’t switch out vehicles the system has been built for this particular vehicle, the stations particularly are designed for the various dimensions of this specific vehicle it would be very expensive to switch," Galloway says

I have seen this before, and I don't doubt that everything has been built to match. I'm also not remotely suggesting that we should order trains from anywhere else. But every time I see it, it makes me wonder what the future plan is when it is time to replace our trains. Will we need to buy new trains that are exactly the same dimensions? Is it really that difficult to make a train that matches the tolerances of the system?

Well, that's a decision to be made in three decades or so when they reach end of life. What technology will be available then? Will it be more cost-effective to keep the same footprint, or retool the system for something else? We'll find the answers when we need to.

[Markster]

"you just can’t switch out vehicles the system has been built for this particular vehicle, the stations particularly are designed for the various dimensions of this specific vehicle it would be very expensive to switch," Galloway says

I have seen this before, and I don't doubt that everything has been built to match. I'm also not remotely suggesting that we should order trains from anywhere else. But every time I see it, it makes me wonder what the future plan is when it is time to replace our trains. Will we need to buy new trains that are exactly the same dimensions? Is it really that difficult to make a train that matches the tolerances of the system?

The biggest point is that the maintenance facility is designed for the Bombardier vehicles. Several things are built to expect the 5-module design, with the specific LRV length.

In 30 years, if they buy a different manufacturer's vehicle, they will almost certainly have to either build a new maintenance garage for them with custom vehicle bays, or retrofit at least one of the existing bays to handle different needs. If the system has grown enough, it won't be too much of a stretch to have a second maintenance facility.

[Canard]

It's a bit amusing to me how when I suggested years ago we go for Monorail, everyone cried no because you'd have to go back to the same vendor for vehicles.

Now, that's literally exactly what has happened.

FWIW, Alstom is building custom AGT trains for the VAL in Lille, running on ex-MATRA (now Siemens) guideway. You can do anything for a price.

[Markster]

It's a bit amusing to me how when I suggested years ago we go for Monorail, everyone cried no because you'd have to go back to the same vendor for vehicles.

Well, the rails in the ground will still handle a greater variety of manufacturers' vehicles than a concrete monorail guideway. The only real constraint is the 30m/60m lengths required for LRVs.

In 30 years, the maintenance bays will need an overhaul anyway. The question will be whether new vehicles from a different manufacturer will be cheap enough to justify the incremental cost of a more expensive maintenance facility refit.

Of course, with content requirements, there's a limited number of companies that can ever bid for the train contracts anyway.

[Canard]

Lots of cities run mixed fleets. I don't really buy that a 5-Module CAF Urbos3 or Alstom CITADIS variant with the same geometry can't work here. We've got spiral curves (suitable for fixed-bogie) and the OCS is at a standard height and so on.

Really it's just stuff like the lifts in the OMSF (lining up to the jack points on the vehicle body) and so on... so add another track with another set of lifts. I know I'm simplifying it (and I'm usually the guy who says "no, it's harder than you think!") but really this is not an impossibility.

If trains 15-28 came from another vendor I'd be sad, but not surprised.

[danbrotherston]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y61bY1TY7X0

Here's a GRT bus overtaking a cyclist on King St.  Not a terrible overtake, but I wouldn't have been terribly comfortable with it.

On a broader note, I am shocked by how many people I see cycling on King St.  In good weather, I'll see a dozen or more.  Given how truly terrible the infrastructure is, there's clearly a huge demand, which makes the complete lack of any infrastructure, not to mention, the dangerous by design situation actually implemented all the more ... heinous.

[Markster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y61bY1TY7X0

Here's a GRT bus overtaking a cyclist on King St.  Not a terrible overtake, but I wouldn't have been terribly comfortable with it.

On a broader note, I am shocked by how many people I see cycling on King St.  In good weather, I'll see a dozen or more.  Given how truly terrible the infrastructure is, there's clearly a huge demand, which makes the complete lack of any infrastructure, not to mention, the dangerous by design situation actually implemented all the more ... heinous.

That is the second worst intersection on King for cyclists. Where the yellow painted line on the left is encouraging drivers to sideswipe cyclists, in the name of keeping cars extra far from the centre curb.

(The worst intersection of course being the shallow angle track crossing at Allen)

[danbrotherston]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y61bY1TY7X0

Here's a GRT bus overtaking a cyclist on King St.  Not a terrible overtake, but I wouldn't have been terribly comfortable with it.

On a broader note, I am shocked by how many people I see cycling on King St.  In good weather, I'll see a dozen or more.  Given how truly terrible the infrastructure is, there's clearly a huge demand, which makes the complete lack of any infrastructure, not to mention, the dangerous by design situation actually implemented all the more ... heinous.

That is the second worst intersection on King for cyclists.  Where the yellow painted line on the left is encouraging drivers to sideswipe cyclists, in the name of keeping cars extra far from the centre curb.

(The worst intersection of course being the shallow angle track crossing at Allen)

*Cough* Moore *Cough*.

But yes, I pretty much saw that one coming, hence why I was filming.  As did the cyclist, who before video was looking from the bus to the road ahead and back again.

[Pheidippides]

It's a bit amusing to me how when I suggested years ago we go for Monorail, everyone cried no because you'd have to go back to the same vendor for vehicles.

Well, the rails in the ground will still handle a greater variety of manufacturers' vehicles than a concrete monorail guideway.  The only real constraint is the 30m/60m lengths required for LRVs.

In 30 years, the maintenance bays will need an overhaul anyway.  The question will be whether new vehicles from a different manufacturer will be cheap enough to justify the incremental cost of a more expensive maintenance facility refit.

Of course, with content requirements, there's a limited number of companies that can ever bid for the train contracts anyway.

I can't believe we are talking about the Flexity's replacement and we don't even have a working one yet.

Isn't another OMSF needed on the for the Cambridge section when it is built? If came down it though, couldn't they house one set of trains in one facility and one set in another?

[timc]

I like to think beyond the short term.

[danbrotherston]

   

I realize everyone is ignoring the turn restrictions at (well all of) the intersection, but I really didn't expect a school bus to do so.

[panamaniac]

I've always wondered how many drivers never look at the traffic lights/signs over the opposing lanes. I suspect it is a very significant minority (at least).