Recycling Issues

[numberguy]

Then the Region would be picking a fight with a union.   And we all know the Region doesn't do that.

You know they outsourced garbage collection to Waste Management, right? From what I can find it doesn't seem like they are unionized in Waterloo Region. Even so, it would be entirely possible to start using machines to shred and sort incoming garbage while maintaining the current sorting system for incoming recycling and letting those people's contracts expire without having to "bust" any union and slowly transition it all to machines.

Yes, garbage collection is done by WM. But where would the sorting be done? Certainly not done at collection, rather at the landfill site. Those workers are indeed Region of Waterloo unionized staff.

I would welcome any news of the Region of Waterloo successfully reducing union roles/replacing them out. I'm skeptical, but would welcome information.

[clasher]

Yes, garbage collection is done by WM. But where would the sorting be done? Certainly not done at collection, rather at the landfill site. Those workers are indeed Region of Waterloo unionized staff.

I would welcome any news of the Region of Waterloo successfully reducing union roles/replacing them out. I'm skeptical, but would welcome information.

Why? So some people that have a crappy job make a few more dollars an hour and can afford to live an okay life. I think in the big scheme of things it's not really going to be any massive savings if you can get rid of the few jobs at the landfill that involve sorting recyclables.

I looked it up and it seems the majority of the commercial stream is not recycled in Canada, particularly organics.

This is starting to change, most of the grocery stores in town now have big "organics" bins beside the compactors and wal-mart has green bins aplenty behind the stores for all the food that isn't quite perfect enough to sell anymore. Most small places still just chuck it all in one dumpster, I know we did when I worked in a restaurant about a decade ago. A friend of mine that works at florists just tosses all the trimmings and other organic waste into black garbage bags for collection. I do think getting commercial and big buildings into the organics system would save way more landfill space than any bag tag scheme would.

[numberguy]

Yes, garbage collection is done by WM.   But where would the sorting be done?  Certainly not done at collection, rather at the landfill site.   Those workers are indeed Region of Waterloo unionized staff.

I would welcome any news of the Region of Waterloo successfully reducing union roles/replacing them out.   I'm skeptical, but would welcome information.

Why? So some people that have a crappy job make a few more dollars an hour and can afford to live an okay life. I think in the big scheme of things it's not really going to be any massive savings if you can get rid of the few jobs at the landfill that involve sorting recyclables.

Public sector union wages go beyond this topic.   Also, I'm hesitant to say what job is crappy or not, especially if I haven't done it myself.

I'll just go back to my original point that the Region of Waterloo seems very hesitant to take on any union and that the landfill jobs are indeed unionized, making me skeptical that any auto-sorting technology to reduce the number of union jobs at a landfill would be implemented.

I looked it up and it seems the majority of the commercial stream is not recycled in Canada, particularly organics.

This is starting to change, most of the grocery stores in town now have big "organics" bins beside the compactors and wal-mart has green bins aplenty behind the stores for all the food that isn't quite perfect enough to sell anymore. Most small places still just chuck it all in one dumpster, I know we did when I worked in a restaurant about a decade ago. A friend of mine that works at florists just tosses all the trimmings and other organic waste into black garbage bags for collection. I do think getting commercial and big buildings into the organics system would save way more landfill space than any bag tag scheme would.

Does organic waste need to be diverted from landfill sites?   It seems to me that many people object to reduced garbage pickup service because of the smell/messiness of organic waste, making 'free'/more frequent organic waste/green box a method to placate that concern.  Organic waste, is by definition, biodegradable.   It won't cause any long term environmental damage, unlike plastics etc.  

Why does Waste Management have lower commercial landfill rates than the Region of Waterloo?   Is there anyway to achieve those lower rates?   If not, would it be beneficial to (as it does with waste collection) outsource landfilling to WM?

[plam]

Does organic waste need to be diverted from landfill sites?   It seems to me that many people object to reduced garbage pickup service because of the smell/messiness of organic waste, making 'free'/more frequent organic waste/green box a method to placate that concern.  Organic waste, is by definition, biodegradable.   It won't cause any long term environmental damage, unlike plastics etc. 

My understanding is that once they seal a landfill, very little decomposition occurs. So you could get stuff by composting organic waste, or you could just take up landfill space.

[clasher]

There's no oxygen in a landfill, so there's no composting of the organic material. Instead it produces methane gas which is a much more potent greehouse gas than C02 is. Aerobic compostin, like the backyard kind or what happens in a bigger compositing facility, just produces CO2 which is still bad but at least we're left with something useful after the fact, which can be used to fertilize soils and reduce dependence on other kinds of non-renewable fertilizers. Environment Canada link on the matter.

[numberguy]

Has there been a recent and local(ish) cost benefit analysis of capturing the methane gas from landfills and using it for power generation? It just seems a waste (bad pun, sorry) to burn gas in trucks collecting waste and then having it create a type of gas that is left unused.

If there isn't a big uptake on centralized green waste collection, perhaps a push for home composting (maybe raccoon-proof compost bin giveaways?) might have better uptake.

[MidTowner]

A new facility in Oakville was built a few years ago to generate electricity from methane gas in one of their landfills. It's not uncommon for it to be used to power boilers, or even to produce electricity.

I think that home composting will always be a niche thing. A backyard composter requires some management, and the mix of organics that a typical household produces will probably not be ideal for producing good quality compost without additions. Your average backyard composter also doesn't achieve temperatures high enough to kill pathogens. I think it's common for this and other reasons not to compost things like meat waste. A lot of these things will not break down in a backyard composter in a reasonable amount of time, anyway.

I personally don't understand why someone would find green waste sorting to be a challenge.

[YKF]

Has there been a recent and local(ish) cost benefit analysis of capturing the methane gas from landfills and using it for power generation?   It just seems a waste (bad pun, sorry) to burn gas in trucks collecting waste and then having it create a type of gas that is left unused.

If there isn't a big uptake on centralized green waste collection, perhaps a push for home composting (maybe raccoon-proof compost bin giveaways?) might have better uptake.

I'm not sure about the CBA part, but the Waterloo Landfill already has a gas-to-energy facility which opened in 1999.
http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/aboutT...hure-1.pdf

http://www.toromontcat.com/powersystems/...terloo.pdf

[numberguy]

Thank you, those are great reads.   Toromont, eh?  I wonder if they and/or the Region have a P&L of the methane gas collection operation in the Waterloo Region landfill.   My understanding is that the methane gas reclamation rate tends to be quite low (50% if lucky).

Does the gas reclamation business make money for the Region/how much does it offset the landfill costs?   Then it may be possible to do a cost benefit analysis versus a green bin program (what is its current usage rate, around 5%?).

[clasher]

There's also some burners up on Mount Trashmore but I don't know if they make any electricity or just burn off the methane... it's been quite a while since I've been up there but I remember them from when I was a teen.

[MidTowner]

Regional council voted yesterday to opt for biweekly collection of garbage, with a four-bag limit. I wonder if we'll see green bin usage increase as a result. If not, it's still cheaper this way.

[Waterlooer]

I'm glad this option was passed. Nearly everything (except diapers) can be recycled or green binned. I've heard people talk about how this could cause an increase in illegal dumping but not sure how accurate that is.

[MidTowner]

I'm glad this option was passed. Nearly everything (except diapers) can be recycled or green binned. I've heard people talk about how this could cause an increase in illegal dumping but not sure how accurate that is.

Don't get me started on diapers...disposable diapers are unnecessary most of the time. I understand they can occasionally be convenient.

I agree with you that this is the better option.

And, it seems to me that if people are illegally dumping, we should be fining them, not giving them more legal opportunities to dump for free. They have access to the waste transfer station if they have more garbage to dispose of.

[DHLawrence]

To fine someone illegally dumping, you first have to catch them. Good luck catching someone at the act at one in the morning and getting a cop there before they disappear.

[panamaniac]

To fine someone illegally dumping, you first have to catch them. Good luck catching someone at the act at one in the morning and getting a cop there before they disappear.

Unless they put something that identifies them in the bags.....