30-40 Margaret Ave | 3 fl townhouses | Planned

[Momo26]

People in this area generally go to Central Fresh market no? Or boogy down *far* to another...?

Some of the 'DTK Life' pitch is also to buy local and stop at several shops a la The market, little grocers and bakeries etc. I don't think there are enough options to viable do this and definately not with a fam

[MidTowner]

It would be a fifteen minute walk to the Valu Mart at Frederick Street mall, which is a full-service grocery store.

[panamaniac]

Valu Mart and Central would be the closest, I think, and in that order. I assume the majority of people in the neighbourhood would drive to the supermarket of their choice.

[MidTowner]

I think that's probably a safe assumption. But for the future residents of this development who are considering opting against a parking space, I think it's a pretty good location to live car-free, and the grocery store challenge isn't a huge one.

[panamaniac]

Oh, I couldn't see it being "make or break" for anybody, unless perhaps a non-driving senior who feels they must live next to a supermarket (that's a bit niche, although I've always thought that seniors apartments would be a good fit at some of our secondary malls, like Frederick St and Stanley Park).

[westwardloo]

Oh, I couldn't see it being "make or break" for anybody, unless perhaps a non-driving senior who feels they must live next to a supermarket (that's a bit niche, although I've always thought that seniors apartments would be a good fit at some of our secondary malls, like Frederick St and Stanley Park).

Off topic, But i think the whole Frederick st mall property is rip for redevelopment. On a smaller scale of other dying malls in the GTA like the Galleria Mall redevelopment.

[tomh009]

People in this area generally go to Central Fresh market no? Or boogy down *far* to another...?

Some of the 'DTK Life' pitch is also to buy local and stop at several shops a la The market, little grocers and bakeries etc. I don't think there are enough options to viable do this and definately not with a fam

We certainly go to supermarkets less often now that we live in DTK. Staples at SDM, fruits and vegetables at Legacy Greens, New City or BT (or the market on weekends), baked goods at various bakeries, meat products and fish at New City, the market or several butcher shops, ethnic foods at any of a dozen stores etc. It's not one stop but then you are also not walking long distances in the supermarket (and parking lot). And 20 minutes' walk (for us) takes us to Sobey's, Food Basics and Euro Foods on Highland; from Margaret, the Frederick mall is not far.

As for a family, it really depends. I don't see why you couldn't shop at smaller stores for a family of three. If you have four hungry teenagers at home it'll be different, but most Canadian families are not that large.

[Lordelsinore]

The elusvie downsizing Boomers and mid to upper-level tech folk, plus assorted younger downtown professionals.  Perhaps a couple of elite types looking for a pied-a-terre "back home" in Kitchener.  Add in a sprinkle of Torontonians working or able to commute from K-W.   Not sure that sells 340 apartments, but it's a start.

They only need to sell 236.   The buyer demographic for the larger units will probably be much like that for Arrow Lofts, and then they have a whole lot more smaller units than Arrow does.

Just curious what the demographic is of the larger Arrow lofts is and what you think M's will be?

[tomh009]

They only need to sell 236.   The buyer demographic for the larger units will probably be much like that for Arrow Lofts, and then they have a whole lot more smaller units than Arrow does.

Just curious what the demographic is of the larger Arrow lofts is and what you think M's will be?

I would hazard a guess that two-thirds of Arrow residents are over 50. Maybe only 10% have children (of any age) living with them, many more than that have pets. Given the ages, many of the over-50s are retired. There is a contingent of younger residents, 20s/30s, many working in tech. Rentals at Arrow are only about 25%, I do expect that number to be higher at Avenue M, especially the small 1BR units are more likely to be rentals. Avenue M's minimum lease period is three months (less than a university term) as compared to Arrow's six months.

An additional twist is that Avenue M is offering up to 25 "short-term rental licences", allowing the owner of such a licence to do either "executive (furnished) rentals" or AirBNB-style rentals. It may be attractive to an investor wanting to do that business. But as a potential buyer/resident, this was a big factor for us to not proceed with Avenue M, as attractive as some aspects of it are.

[panamaniac]

Just curious what the demographic is of the larger Arrow lofts is and what you think M's will be?

I would hazard a guess that two-thirds of Arrow residents are over 50. Maybe only 10% have children (of any age) living with them, many more than that have pets. Given the ages, many of the over-50s are retired. There is a contingent of younger residents, 20s/30s, many working in tech. Rentals at Arrow are only about 25%, I do expect that number to be higher at Avenue M, especially the small 1BR units are more likely to be rentals. Avenue M's minimum lease period is three months (less than a university term) as compared to Arrow's six months.

An additional twist is that Avenue M is offering up to 25 "short-term rental licences", allowing the owner of such a licence to do either "executive (furnished) rentals" or AirBNB-style rentals. It may be attractive to an investor wanting to do that business. But as a potential buyer/resident, this was a big factor for us to not proceed with Avenue M, as attractive as some aspects of it are.

Seems a dreadful idea to me, but in the context of this development, it might be OK if all those units were in one of the two towers.

[Lordelsinore]

I would hazard a guess that two-thirds of Arrow residents are over 50. Maybe only 10% have children (of any age) living with them, many more than that have pets. Given the ages, many of the over-50s are retired. There is a contingent of younger residents, 20s/30s, many working in tech. Rentals at Arrow are only about 25%, I do expect that number to be higher at Avenue M, especially the small 1BR units are more likely to be rentals. Avenue M's minimum lease period is three months (less than a university term) as compared to Arrow's six months.

An additional twist is that Avenue M is offering up to 25 "short-term rental licences", allowing the owner of such a licence to do either "executive (furnished) rentals" or AirBNB-style rentals. It may be attractive to an investor wanting to do that business. But as a potential buyer/resident, this was a big factor for us to not proceed with Avenue M, as attractive as some aspects of it are.

Seems a dreadful idea to me, but in the context of this development, it might be OK if all those units were in one of the two towers.

Interesting....I am not overly familiar with the availability of AirBnB units in the city but do you think having 25 units would be a high amount?  Does that license need to be renewed annually or a one shot deal?  

I just did a quick look at the AirBnB listings....I think long term rentals in a building like this would be more profitable considering whats available out there.

[tomh009]

An additional twist is that Avenue M is offering up to 25 "short-term rental licences", allowing the owner of such a licence to do either "executive (furnished) rentals" or AirBNB-style rentals. It may be attractive to an investor wanting to do that business. But as a potential buyer/resident, this was a big factor for us to not proceed with Avenue M, as attractive as some aspects of it are.

Seems a dreadful idea to me, but in the context of this development, it might be OK if all those units were in one of the two towers.

Or better yet, limited to one or two floors of one building. That would allow you to use access control to limit overnight "guests'" access to only those areas. But, no, it's anywhere in the two buildings.

[tomh009]

Seems a dreadful idea to me, but in the context of this development, it might be OK if all those units were in one of the two towers.

Interesting....I am not overly familiar with the availability of AirBnB units in the city but do you think having 25 units would be a high amount?  Does that license need to be renewed annually or a one shot deal?  

I just did a quick look at the AirBnB listings....I think long term rentals in a building like this would be more profitable considering whats available out there.

It's not a high number in the context of the entire city, but it's 10% of the building. That's 25-50 people in the building at any given time that could be anyone with Internet access. I certainly view that as an decrease in building security, and an increase in wear and tear. And I say that as someone who has done several dozen AirBNB stays!

No, there is no renewal required. And there is no mechanism to revoke a short-term licence even in the case of poor management or negligence. That last bit really rubbed me the wrong way, there is no way to effectively enforce policies in that case.

Finally, if you do allow X% of units to do AirBNB, you effectively lose the ability to control AirBNB altogether, as you won't be able to look at an AirBNB listing and identify whether it's a licensed one or not. (In our building short-term rentals are disallowed altogether so anything that shows up on AirBNB is clearly against the rules (declaration, really).

[panamaniac]

I wonder if the future owners might not be tempted to do away with the licence provision, enen though they'd probably have to "grandfather' it? Now that there will be a couple of condos in town with this kind of arrangement, it will be interesting to see how/whether the value of units is affected in any way, compared to buildings without short-term rentals.

[tomh009]

Need 80% owner approval to amend the declaration (to modify the licensing provisions), so about 190 of 236 units. That's a very high bar.