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High-Speed Rail (HSR) - Toronto/Pearson/Kitchener/London
#61
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/ontario-appo...-1.2635333

Yes!!!!!!!!
For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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#62
Just imagine, Kitchener to downtown Toronto in less than 40 minutes. This would be the best thing to happen to the 401 corridor in ... well ... possibly ever.
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#63
It's also one of those rare projects that has a meaningful impact on millions of people across a wide demographic.

Even non-Torontonians are really negatively impacted by the 401 congestion.
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#64
We need vision and leadership to pull off a project like this.  Thankfully, the two most powerful politicians in Canada are both on-board with this and committed to public transport.

Paul Langdon just uploaded some great archival footage of the Turbo:

For daily ion construction updates, photos and general urban rail news, follow me on twitter! @Canardiain
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#65
HSR connecting Montreal to Toronto would easily pay for itself in economic benefit... I think... Smile
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#66
(11-01-2015, 02:08 PM)JoeKW Wrote: HSR connecting Montreal to Toronto would easily pay for itself in economic benefit... I think... Smile

I've done the math several times over and in my opinion it's close to being profitable on its own, never mind economic benefits.
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#67
These commissions, studies promises and inaction by governments have gone on for almost forever and little happens with the exception of the media hype and consultants get paid a lot.

Since 1970 there have been twenty official High Speed Rail (HSR) studies and promises.

http://www.highspeedrailcanada.com/2015/...-rail.html

I presented a consulting report in Montreal to the 1991 - Ontario/Quebec Rapid Train Task Force, Ontario and Quebec Governments study and it was seemingly feasible then but politicians only get elected every four years and governments change,. Fill in the blanks _______________ 

Here is the final report link ...     1991 - Ontario/Quebec Rapid Train Task Force, Ontario and Quebec Governments  http://www.bv.transports.gouv.qc.ca/mono/0986299.pdf

I do hope you can forgive my deep seeded pessimism but I hope I live long enough to see HSR and also to ride the promised HSR in Ontario. 

Nota bene: It was interesting to re-read today the 1991 report and see the data projections for the year 2010 being used. No time to see if any were even close or accurate (hind site is fun). It was interesting to see the user, cost and economic data projections used in 1991.
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#68
Somehow, this time it rings more real to me. Same with the KW-Guelph highway 7, which had been promised long ago. So I'm hoping that this time is for real, but as you say, there are good reasons to be skeptic.
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#69
This time, I think, the stars are aligned - the Feds want it, the provinces want it, the mayors and other influentials want it. I'm optimistic within reason.
My Twitter: @KevinLMaps
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#70
The obligatory Rick Mercer video.
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#71
Quote:High-speed rail would address a number of chronic challenges facing the country, including the weak economy, a poor record on innovation and rising greenhouse gas emissions.  (...)  At the very least, high-speed rail should be part of the infrastructure conversation.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...e27059566/
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#72
The Record's view: Answers needed on high-speed passenger trains through Kitchener   
Quote:Ontarians need to see the comprehensive business plan for high-speed rail. Give the people hard, realistic estimates for how many passengers would use it 10 and 20 years from now.

Let's see realistic cost estimates, too. What would the price be for a ticket? How high would construction costs soar? A previous Ontario government estimate that suggested a 185-kilometre high-speed rail line could be built between London and Toronto for $2.5 billion seems impossibly low when you consider the cost of land acquisition, hammering in tracks that can safely hold high-speed trains, buying trains and making every road crossing safe and secure along the route.

By contrast, a joint federal, Ontario and Quebec study from 2011 concluded a high-speed link between Quebec City and Windsor would cost $21 billion to build. Even when you take into account the estimate is for a greater distance, the $2.5-billion figure seems off. Heck, it's costing close to a billion dollars just to build an 18-kilometre light rail line in Kitchener and Waterloo...

[Via's president] Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, considers high-speed rail a poor investment and has no interest in building such a system in this corridor. Instead, he wants money for a Windsor to Quebec City rail corridor dedicated only to passenger service that could run at 160 km/h. "That option is much cheaper (than high-speed rail) at a third of the price and it serves more people," he said earlier this year. 

It's also worth noting that Via Rail will be asking the incoming federal government to back its $4-billion plan to build this dedicated track on the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto corridor. Southern Ontario could benefit from better passenger rail service — but it doesn't need two railways competing with each other and providing overlapping services propped up by tax dollars.

Finally, Collenette should explain how high-speed rail would complement the province's plans to improve GO train commuter service. Does Ontario need both?

I'd like to see some answers to these issues. For example, a 160km/hr train would make 1 hour Waterloo to Union commutes possible (including time to make a few intermediate stops.) Perhaps that's "good enough" compared to true HSR if the price differential is great enough.
We should also look at merging this rail option with GO (and with a link to YYZ) if at all possible. Perhaps if the new Union-Pearson line could be upgraded to be part of this there could be an express train from Union to KW to London, etc. with a stop at YYZ. This is the sort of service that railways throughout Europe provide.
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#73
I read somewhere in those reports that 45 min from KW to Union Station was feasible. This would make HSR the preferred mode of transportation to anyone going close to downtown Toronto when one considers parking prices in the equation. Add a stop at Pearson and we are talking in the order of 10K trips a day.

Any one has statistics for KW-T.O. trips a day when combining VIA+GO+Greycoach?
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#74
(11-03-2015, 02:00 PM)BuildingScout Wrote: I read somewhere in those reports that 45 min from KW to Union Station was feasible. This would make HSR the preferred mode of transportation to anyone going close to downtown Toronto when one considers parking prices in the equation. Add a stop at Pearson and we are talking in the order of 10K trips a day.

Here's the problem: HSR from KW to Union in 45min probably makes sense as long as there are no intermediate stops. It takes a while for an HSR to reach maximum speeds from a stop and then to slow down to make a stop. If an HSR has to stop at say Guelph, Bramlea and Pearson before it gets into Union then the "high speed" capability (and the cost of the special rail beds, locomotives, etc.) is wasted. If it doesn't stop at those locations then it loses potential passengers. Also the rail operator would still need to offer regular commuter train service to those locations in addition to HSR to points farther out.

If the objective is to provide frequent service to as many locations as possible it may make sense to avoid the extra costs of true HSR and go with 160 to 200 km/hr service. That's what in Europe would be called Inter-city rail or Railjet rather than HSR. I suspect most people would be willing to sacrifice absolute speed (say KW to Union in 1 hour rather than 45min) if it meant hourly service rather than every 2 or more hours.

But these sorts of tradeoffs are why we need to get some numbers and make informed decisions about what sort of regular service makes the most sense between London and Union.
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#75
[quote='ookpik' pid='13282' dateline='1446573016']
The Record's view: Answers needed on high-speed passenger trains through Kitchener   
[quote]
[....]
By contrast, a joint federal, Ontario and Quebec study from 2011 concluded a high-speed link between Quebec City and Windsor would cost $21 billion to build. Even when you take into account the estimate is for a greater distance, the $2.5-billion figure seems off. Heck, it's costing close to a billion dollars just to build an 18-kilometre light rail line in Kitchener and Waterloo...

[Via's president] Yves Desjardins-Siciliano, considers high-speed rail a poor investment and has no interest in building such a system in this corridor. Instead, he wants money for a Windsor to Quebec City rail corridor dedicated only to passenger service that could run at 160 km/h. "That option is much cheaper (than high-speed rail) at a third of the price and it serves more people," he said earlier this year. 

[....]
[/quote]

I would want to know what the $2.5 billion and $21 billion are per kilometer. Quebec City to Windsor is 1160km. I’m not sure the exact distance to Toronto, but it looks to me like those numbers are in the same ballpark, per kilometer, so just saying that the $2.5 billion “seems off” is — or maybe I should say, “seems” — irresponsible.

Comparing to the LRT line is obviously completely invalid, to the point where I question the sincerity of the argument. Our project has to contend with enormous amounts of buried infrastructure and work on city streets. By contrast HSR construction would be almost entirely out in the countryside, and from what I understand much of it would not even be on existing corridors so the issue of road and rail closures would be almost non-existent. It is entirely believable that the cost per kilometer for HSR would be way lower than for LRT.

I must count myself as a bit of an HSR skeptic (even though as a fan I love the idea), but I don’t want to see arguments against that are clearly not thought out. If I see bogus arguments against and no possibly-valid arguments against, it makes me start to think there are no actual arguments against.
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