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Google Maps and satellite imagery of KW
#76
(10-07-2018, 02:39 AM)plam Wrote: There's the Open Data movement which points out that making data publicly available fo under liberal licenses can have many beneficial and unanticipated side effects. Having to negotiate a license stifles innovation, even a $0 license. So if the government isn't trying to make money from the imagery, releasing it is probably best for society. That is assuming that they own the data, rather than licensing it.

US government works are public domain, but not Canadian works.

Stifles innovation? Hmmm. Negotiating a licence is a relatively small task to everything else that would need to be done for a startup.

And once Google puts their logo on our maps, they are no longer public domain. Are we OK with that?
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#77
(10-07-2018, 02:47 PM)tomh009 Wrote:
(10-07-2018, 02:39 AM)plam Wrote: There's the Open Data movement which points out that making data publicly available fo under liberal licenses can have many beneficial and unanticipated side effects. Having to negotiate a license stifles innovation, even a $0 license. So if the government isn't trying to make money from the imagery, releasing it is probably best for society. That is assuming that they own the data, rather than licensing it.

US government works are public domain, but not Canadian works.

Stifles innovation? Hmmm. Negotiating a licence is a relatively small task to everything else that would need to be done for a startup.

And once Google puts their logo on our maps, they are no longer public domain. Are we OK with that?

Doesn't have to be a startup. Let's say that I wanted to do something with the data, since I have relevant skills. I'm not going to negotiate a license (and realistically I actually don't have time to do anything), but I would be more likely to do something without having to negotiate a license. mpd618 has been excited about open data in the past. Students have done things e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/comme...you_catch/.

The fact that Google shows the data with the Google license does not mean that the data also doesn't exist under other licenses. So, no, they aren't necessarily restricting the license on the underlying data. In the software world, that's the same as releasing your software under GPL to the world but also under other licenses by negotiation.
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#78
I have no issues with open data for non-commercial use. But I don't see why giant global corporations need to get our data for free. I think we'll just need to disagree on that point.
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#79
As a note, you can already download the 2018 imagery from the Kitchener site as it is, but I don't know what license restrictions that comes with. So Google, or anyone else, could already have the imagery (data) if they wanted.

What if that global company takes that open data and uses it in a way that results in additional insight, interest, or investment in the community from which originated?

I have the same problem with Statistics Canada charging users (often other government bodies like the City or Region) for certain data products and tables that are not made freely available on the StatsCan website. The data has already been collected, processed, and reformatted (and paid for) let it be free and used to generate ideas, knowledge, and wealth. I don't think StatsCan does it for profit, only cost recovery, but it seems inefficient.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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#80
(10-08-2018, 02:52 PM)tomh009 Wrote: I have no issues with open data for non-commercial use. But I don't see why giant global corporations need to get our data for free. I think we'll just need to disagree on that point.

Because there is no way to make Google pay without making it significantly less convenient for J. Random Hacker.

Same reason billionaires can visit Waterloo Park for free.
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#81
Billionaires can't make money offering access to Waterloo Park, though. And just like billionaires visiting Waterloo Park, any and all Google staff are able to visit and view the latest satellite images.

Clearly I'm in the minority here, though, and most people are happy to give our data to Google for free, so this is my last comment on this topic.
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