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Trails
(07-01-2017, 10:20 AM)panamaniac Wrote: Is the back of their lot fenced off from the trail, or is it a matter of there being no entrance/amenities on that side of the building?  Just wondering why businesses might either neglect the potential, or have some other concerns.

Usually it is a matter of security and trying to control the ways people can enter and leave a property. Additional entrances, especially ones that have less eyes on it usually leads to more shenanigans.
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Actually the gate between the plaza and the trail has been open for some time now. Still no bike parking, but I think it is one of the reasons that plaza is flourishing. All those businesses, I think First Choice is the only chain/non-independent one, seem to be doing well. Chopan Kabob is a regular in our rotation and we frequent a number of the businesses there. Highland Camera just moved in too.
Everyone move to the back of the bus and we all get home faster.
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The medical centre is a great example of why this is stupid.  There's also the Church, which I think has even embraced the trail (they put signage next to the trail sometimes), but still has no actual paved path for I assume, historic, reasons.  As for why you can't just branch off at the last road, you can, by why should we have too.  No such excuse would be made for cars most of the time (even though it often makes much more sense for cars to detour), and when it comes to cyclists, well, there's no infra on Belmont, its not the scariest road, but it is still much more scary than the trail.

When it comes down too it, I was deliberate when I said "cultural". When the IHT was built, it was seen as a recreational feature only.  Businesses wouldn't want to be connected too it, because the people on it wouldn't want to be connected to businesses.  They aren't going anywhere, they're only going for a walk.  If they were going to a business, they'd get in their car like a proper person.

Despite this sounding obviously stupid in this forum, it's still a pervasive belief among many, even many business owners.  Even in uptown how many business owners believe that 90+% of their customers arrive by car?  This is why the uptown business study that the city/university did before the bike lanes went in was so important.

As for the shenanigans issue, I think it's a fear, but I don't think it's an actual problem.  In fact, I think making a unofficial desire line is worse, than an official entrance.

However, we will see how the trail re-build goes over.  Making some of the unofficial accesses official was one goal of the project, maybe some of the businesses will get (or even want) a connection.
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(07-01-2017, 09:25 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Actually the gate between the plaza and the trail has been open for some time now. Still no bike parking, but I think it is one of the reasons that plaza is flourishing. All those businesses, I think First Choice is the only chain/non-independent one, seem to be doing well. Chopan Kabob is a regular in our rotation and we frequent a number of the businesses there. Highland Camera just moved in too.

Good to know the gate is open - when I started going a couple summers ago there was no visible point of entry from the trail so since then I've always cut down Patricia. The lack of bike racks is a bigger issue I think - it doesn't make me feel welcome to have to lock my bike to a hydro pole or a metal sign on Highland. In the back of my mind I'm always wondering if my bike is going to get taken away for being chained to something it shouldn't.
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I doubt that most businesses have even considered the possibility of providing a direct connection to the IHT regardless of their perceptions of cyclists. It's not even something I would have considered a possibility prior to the idea being broached in this thread.
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Sounds like the trail-using community needs to step up its advocacy with the City and with trail-bordering businesses (I wonder as well if some have just never thought about it?).

Edit:  I wonder if the Catalyst 137 developers wouldn't be helpful in this regard - the IHT would make a nice short cut to the amenities of Belmont between Glasgow and Gage (such as they are...).
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(07-02-2017, 08:46 AM)goggolor Wrote:
(07-01-2017, 09:25 PM)Pheidippides Wrote: Actually the gate between the plaza and the trail has been open for some time now. Still no bike parking, but I think it is one of the reasons that plaza is flourishing. All those businesses, I think First Choice is the only chain/non-independent one, seem to be doing well. Chopan Kabob is a regular in our rotation and we frequent a number of the businesses there. Highland Camera just moved in too.

Good to know the gate is open - when I started going a couple summers ago there was no visible point of entry from the trail so since then I've always cut down Patricia. The lack of bike racks is a bigger issue I think - it doesn't make me feel welcome to have to lock my bike to a hydro pole or a metal sign on Highland. In the back of my mind I'm always wondering if my bike is going to get taken away for being chained to something it shouldn't.

I'm in the reverse boat.  I've used that trail for years, and I know there's a plaza there, but because of inaccessibility and zero visibility from the trail I have no idea what businesses are there, and consequently never consider patronizing them.

As for no bike parking, that problem is epidemic on Highland Rd., I have complained numerous times to the Sobeys.
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(07-02-2017, 07:43 AM)danbrotherston Wrote:   No such excuse would be made for cars most of the time (even though it often makes much more sense for cars to detour), and when it comes to cyclists, well, there's no infra on Belmont, its not the scariest road, but it is still much more scary than the trail.

And, of course, Belmont doesn't need good bike infrastructure here because the far superior trail is so close.
My Twitter: @KevinLMaps
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(07-02-2017, 07:43 AM)danbrotherston Wrote: The medical centre is a great example of why this is stupid.  There's also the Church, which I think has even embraced the trail (they put signage next to the trail sometimes), but still has no actual paved path for I assume, historic, reasons.  As for why you can't just branch off at the last road, you can, by why should we have too.  No such excuse would be made for cars most of the time (even though it often makes much more sense for cars to detour), and when it comes to cyclists, well, there's no infra on Belmont, its not the scariest road, but it is still much more scary than the trail.

When it comes down too it, I was deliberate when I said "cultural". When the IHT was built, it was seen as a recreational feature only.  Businesses wouldn't want to be connected too it, because the people on it wouldn't want to be connected to businesses.  They aren't going anywhere, they're only going for a walk.  If they were going to a business, they'd get in their car like a proper person.

Despite this sounding obviously stupid in this forum, it's still a pervasive belief among many, even many business owners.  Even in uptown how many business owners believe that 90+% of their customers arrive by car?  This is why the uptown business study that the city/university did before the bike lanes went in was so important.

As for the shenanigans issue, I think it's a fear, but I don't think it's an actual problem.  In fact, I think making a unofficial desire line is worse, than an official entrance.

However, we will see how the trail re-build goes over.  Making some of the unofficial accesses official was one goal of the project, maybe some of the businesses will get (or even want) a connection.
Most of what is involved in security is based on fear, people lock their car doors when it is on their driveway because of fear even though rationally it should be fine, who would walk in and out of everyone's driveway and check car doors to try and steal some small change, but it happens a lot.  Walking by on a trail that goes behind buildings that doesn't have a lot of eyeballs back there invites a lot of opportunity for something to happen and there are crimes that take place because the opportunity arises. I appreciate that you don't think it is an issue but there is a reason most people with backyards that back onto a trail or railway have a fence or some sort of barrier in place, otherwise stuff starts to go missing.
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Nothing precludes properties like the medical centre from creating a locked gate that they close after business hours.
My Twitter: @KevinLMaps
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