American Block Redevelopment | 3 fl | U/C

[GtwoK]

Has vidyard gone mostly remote?

It appears so. He said they have 300 employees, and space for 75 people.

I understood that to be 75 in the new space — they've still got the old office across the street, AFAIK. As to whether they're remote or not, I'm not sure.

Anecdotally, most local tech companies that already had offices are following hybrid models. Many have revamped their existing space and worked out ways to support hoteling a little better, few have shut them down entirely.

A non-trivial percentage of developers do prefer working outside their homes, and in fact the majority of people who work in most tech companies stops being developers once there's some market traction. It takes a lot more people to sell, market and support software than it does to build it and in the same way that developers tend towards low extroversion, those roles tend towards high.

I know my company switched to being remote-first during the pandemic, and downsized the office space we have as a result. Before the pandemic we had the option of working remote if we chose, which was being taken away just as the pandemic started over concerns of productivity. But once we were forced to be remote, we discovered productivity was way better, and people were far happier. Our new space is maybe 40% the size of the old one (despite being a larger company than we were at the beginning of the pandemic), and apart from a few people who requested permanent desk space, is mostly drop in hot-desking.

Not as cool of a space as vidyard though!

[ac3r]

I wonder if companies here could find a way to balance a 4 day work week instead. It's popular across Europe (and the UK is now trailing it). Have some people come in 4 days, take 3 off and vice versa. 4 day work weeks seems to indeed increase productivity overall in most sectors and there usually isn't any need for a reduction in wages - in fact, employees almost never find that to be the case. It could easily allow employers to lease or own less office space if the workforce alternates. As someone who worked like this a lot while living in Europe, it gives you much more free time for yourself, rather than trying to balance taking 20 minutes off at home to run errands, because you know you have 3 entire days to yourself (in addition to the time you're not at work on workdays). It also boosts things like you're relationships, friendships and mental health etc because you've got more time to dedicate to your spouse or your hobbies, rather than trying to fit that into your normal workday where you're working, commuting, cooking, taking care of kids and so on.

I think people would prefer that if they had to be in the office. There's some evidence that working from home, on the contrary, reduces productivity. That way you get the best of both. Employees get more time off, productivity goes up and wages don't decrease. But to achieve that in North America I think we'll need a cultural shift where we stop living to work, rather than working to live. We still believe the latter to be true here, largely in part because we share a similar economic philosophy with our southern brethren who's entire existence seems to be dedicated to working, lest they end up with skid row.

[dtkvictim]

I think people would prefer that if they had to be in the office. There's some evidence that working from home, on the contrary, reduces productivity. That way you get the best of both. Employees get more time off, productivity goes up and wages don't decrease. But to achieve that in North America I think we'll need a cultural shift where we stop living to work, rather than working to live. We still believe the latter to be true here, largely in part because we share a similar economic philosophy with our southern brethren who's entire existence seems to be dedicated to working, lest they end up with skid row.

I mean, working from home isn't "time off", despite some comments here acting like people working from home are spending their entire day slacking off. Not that I disagree with the idea of a 4 day week.

Also, I don't believe 4 days in office (3 day weekend) is any improvement over 5 days remote. Going in to the office takes about 2 extra hours out of my day: 1 hour commuting, and waking up about an hour earlier to get ready, eat, and have coffee before leaving. Do that 4 days a week and it's already added up to another 8 hour workday. And you can be sure that the majority of people moving to a 4 day work week would see a pay reduction. A lot of office parks are also in rather desolate places... If I have an appointment during a workday, I can usually complete it in far less time leaving from home vs my office.

If a company wants to pay me an extra 2 hours a day to come in, I'm still not sure I would be happy about it. Despite being in the top 5-10% of incomes, I don't see a future in Ontario where I can comfortably have a family and a home I would be comfortable raising a family in, and getting paid those extra 2 hours wouldn't change anything. The next best thing I can do with my life is claw back as much free time as possible, and actually enjoy it.

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Vidyard space looks great though. I've been in their previous two offices, and they seem to have a knack for attractive spaces.

[tomh009]

I think people would prefer that if they had to be in the office. There's some evidence that working from home, on the contrary, reduces productivity. That way you get the best of both. Employees get more time off, productivity goes up and wages don't decrease. But to achieve that in North America I think we'll need a cultural shift where we stop living to work, rather than working to live. We still believe the latter to be true here, largely in part because we share a similar economic philosophy with our southern brethren who's entire existence seems to be dedicated to working, lest they end up with skid row.

Also, I don't believe 4 days in office (3 day weekend) is any improvement over 5 days remote. Going in to the office takes about 2 extra hours out of my day: 1 hour commuting, and waking up about an hour earlier to get ready, eat, and have coffee before leaving. Do that 4 days a week and it's already added up to another 8 hour workday. And you can be sure that the majority of people moving to a 4 day work week would see a pay reduction. A lot of office parks are also in rather desolate places... If I have an appointment during a workday, I can usually complete it in far less time leaving from home vs my office.

If a company wants to pay me an extra 2 hours a day to come in, I'm still not sure I would be happy about it. Despite being in the top 5-10% of incomes, I don't see a future in Ontario where I can comfortably have a family and a home I would be comfortable raising a family in, and getting paid those extra 2 hours wouldn't change anything. The next best thing I can do with my life is claw back as much free time as possible, and actually enjoy it.

I think the suggested idea was working four 10h days instead of five 8h days. That reduces your total commute time and gives you a full day off to do things that need a bigger block of time -- at the cost of longer workdays on the other four days. I don't see why this arrangement should reduce compensation.

P.S. A top 5% income in Canada is $133K+ (top 10% is $102K+). I don't think most people would struggle on that kind of salary. (Of course, if you did decide to raise kids with only one parent working, that will have to result in some compromises elsewhere.)

[dtkvictim]

Also, I don't believe 4 days in office (3 day weekend) is any improvement over 5 days remote. Going in to the office takes about 2 extra hours out of my day: 1 hour commuting, and waking up about an hour earlier to get ready, eat, and have coffee before leaving. Do that 4 days a week and it's already added up to another 8 hour workday. And you can be sure that the majority of people moving to a 4 day work week would see a pay reduction. A lot of office parks are also in rather desolate places... If I have an appointment during a workday, I can usually complete it in far less time leaving from home vs my office.

If a company wants to pay me an extra 2 hours a day to come in, I'm still not sure I would be happy about it. Despite being in the top 5-10% of incomes, I don't see a future in Ontario where I can comfortably have a family and a home I would be comfortable raising a family in, and getting paid those extra 2 hours wouldn't change anything. The next best thing I can do with my life is claw back as much free time as possible, and actually enjoy it.

I think the suggested idea was working four 10h days instead of five 8h days. That reduces your total commute time and gives you a full day off to do things that need a bigger block of time -- at the cost of longer workdays on the other four days. I don't see why this arrangement should reduce compensation.

P.S. A top 5% income in Canada is $133K+ (top 10% is $102K+). I don't think most people would struggle on that kind of salary. (Of course, if you did decide to raise kids with only one parent working, that will have to result in some compromises elsewhere.)

I don't know why my mind went right past the option of 10 hour days. If that was the arrangement, then yes compensation staying the same makes sense. The bulk of the commute and preparation time still remains though, which I personally find to be a completely unreasonable cost compared to the upsides of being in office all the time. But of course, employers only see the upside to their business, and not the cost to employees.

And sorry, I am not struggling at all, and didn't mean to imply so if I did. I'm sure I could have purchased a home, maybe even a house I don't like, but I haven't. At current housing prices (along with general high inflation), I'm not sure that $133k with children goes as far as you might think. I'm also very risk averse, so the idea of stretching myself to the limit while at rock bottom interest rates is terrifying to me.

[tomh009]

The bulk of the commute and preparation time still remains though, which I personally find to be a completely unreasonable cost compared to the upsides of being in office all the time. But of course, employers only see the upside to their business, and not the cost to employees.

It's a two-way street: employers can decide how much to pay, and what the working conditions are. And employees can decide whether to accept those conditions or whether to choose a different employer. In a competitive employment marketplace, unreasonable or uncompetitive employers will not be able to attract competent employees and will eventually either have to become competitive or close up shop.

And in most skilled professions in Canada, we do have very much of a competitive marketplace.

[Spokes]

Am I alone in thinking people are getting way too comfortable by thinking working from home is the future of everything? This is a neoliberal capitalist society/world. Employers want to know what you are doing all the time. I honestly don't see this lasting, but maybe it's different for the code monkeys out there. There are still a lot of industries that will need to rely on office space, be it fields in engineering, conceptual software design, architecture, bioscience etc.

I think so too.  I think right now business owners love paying less for physical office space, but I think the pendulum swings back

[Rainrider22]

I think people would prefer that if they had to be in the office. There's some evidence that working from home, on the contrary, reduces productivity. That way you get the best of both. Employees get more time off, productivity goes up and wages don't decrease. But to achieve that in North America I think we'll need a cultural shift where we stop living to work, rather than working to live. We still believe the latter to be true here, largely in part because we share a similar economic philosophy with our southern brethren who's entire existence seems to be dedicated to working, lest they end up with skid row.

I mean, working from home isn't "time off", despite some comments here acting like people working from home are spending their entire day slacking off. Not that I disagree with the idea of a 4 day week.

Also, I don't believe 4 days in office (3 day weekend) is any improvement over 5 days remote. Going in to the office takes about 2 extra hours out of my day: 1 hour commuting, and waking up about an hour earlier to get ready, eat, and have coffee before leaving. Do that 4 days a week and it's already added up to another 8 hour workday. And you can be sure that the majority of people moving to a 4 day work week would see a pay reduction. A lot of office parks are also in rather desolate places... If I have an appointment during a workday, I can usually complete it in far less time leaving from home vs my office.

If a company wants to pay me an extra 2 hours a day to come in, I'm still not sure I would be happy about it. Despite being in the top 5-10% of incomes, I don't see a future in Ontario where I can comfortably have a family and a home I would be comfortable raising a family in, and getting paid those extra 2 hours wouldn't change anything. The next best thing I can do with my life is claw back as much free time as possible, and actually enjoy it.

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Vidyard space looks great though. I've been in their previous two offices, and they seem to have a knack for attractive spaces.

I work a four day work week. The difference is I work 10 hour days.  I have a 45 min commute in the morning and an hour to 2 hour or longer commute in the evening return.  For me, it is awesome.  I am not able to work from home, so for me, 4 day work week is great.  Plus one less drive in.  That being said, sometimes I end up working 7 days a week too...