General Business Updates and News

[timc]

kps: What is RTP? Raleigh Technology Park?

Close. Research Triangle Park

[Viewfromthe42]

An excellent point was made on twitter about why this project doesn't fly in almost any city: it's for 50,000 jobs. Look at how Waterloo pillories politicians for erecting condo towers, with massive fear about even Sixo's sub-1000 unit projection. Toronto similarly balks at proposals that involve more than one tower, or are anywhere outside University/Yonge/Harbourfront/Bloor. 50,000 new units will be a very hard sell in any city that doesn't have Houston-like abdication of zoning (and then the environmental risks we saw in the last week, let alone traffic costs, can similarly torpedo those options). I realize there would be some level of siphoning off of local talent, but even if you took every tech worker in Waterloo Region you still couldn't supply that office (let alone would you win an argument for bending over for Amazon in order to take away all the employees of existing businesses in a chaotic wash).

[MidTowner]

Houston's zoning wasn't the problem. Cities that have strict separation of uses and which curtail density in some areas do not necessarily do a good job of reducing impervious areas or preventing building on flood plains.

50,000 is definitely a tall order. I would imagine that would come over many years, though.

[danbrotherston]

An excellent point was made on twitter about why this project doesn't fly in almost any city: it's for 50,000 jobs. Look at how Waterloo pillories politicians for erecting condo towers, with massive fear about even Sixo's sub-1000 unit projection. Toronto similarly balks at proposals that involve more than one tower, or are anywhere outside University/Yonge/Harbourfront/Bloor. 50,000 new units will be a very hard sell in any city that doesn't have Houston-like abdication of zoning (and then the environmental risks we saw in the last week, let alone traffic costs, can similarly torpedo those options). I realize there would be some level of siphoning off of local talent, but even if you took every tech worker in Waterloo Region you still couldn't supply that office (let alone would you win an argument for bending over for Amazon in order to take away all the employees of existing businesses in a chaotic wash).

I wouldn't focus on the 50k number much.  Day 1 won't see 50k, day 3000 probably won't see 50k either.  It took them 23 years to grow to this size in Seattle, even if their growth rate is double (which is damn hard to do at scale), it's in the 10+ years timeframe.  They're looking for room to grow and a technical population to draw on (and apparently some fat tax breaks).

I would think Waterloo Region should be somewhat competitive on lower existing density and real-estate costs to start with.  If HSR and GO Transit plans were more in stone, I would expect that would give them the confidence they'd have enough population to draw on.  But I'm sure there are many places in a similar situation around the continent.  Or maybe there aren't....who knows.

[goggolor]

I realize there would be some level of siphoning off of local talent, but even if you took every tech worker in Waterloo Region you still couldn't supply that office (let alone would you win an argument for bending over for Amazon in order to take away all the employees of existing businesses in a chaotic wash).

Having read the stories about how Amazon treats its workers (both tech and warehouse) you couldn't pay me enough to work there.

[tomh009]

[quote pid='41614' dateline='1504880791']
I would think Waterloo Region should be somewhat competitive on lower existing density and real-estate costs to start with.  If HSR and GO Transit plans were more in stone, I would expect that would give them the confidence they'd have enough population to draw on.  But I'm sure there are many places in a similar situation around the continent.  Or maybe there aren't....who knows.
[/quote]

More importantly, lower salary costs.

[Viewfromthe42]

To a degree, yes. But as we've seen the price of homes rise by $100,000+ over the last few years, those housing costs will necessitate salary increases as well (barring a revolutionary attitude towards residence-building), evaporating some of that difference. We're not Toronto, of course, but costs to buy and rent have been ballooning.

[panamaniac]

To a degree, yes. But as we've seen the price of homes rise by $100,000+ over the last few years, those housing costs will necessitate salary increases as well (barring a revolutionary attitude towards residence-building), evaporating some of that difference. We're not Toronto, of course, but costs to buy and rent have been ballooning.

That reminds me - has anybody seen any reports re how much house prices have fallen in K-W since the spring?  I assume they are still up over this time last year?

[Markster]

That reminds me - has anybody seen any reports re how much house prices have fallen in K-W since the spring?  I assume they are still up over this time last year?

You'd be interested in this article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-...-1.4278785

[notmyfriends]

So the average home sale price peaked in April at $512,656, and is down to $441,992 now though still up 10.1% over a year ago. For whatever average sales prices are worth.

[tomh009]

A single-month average is not very meaningful, it can too easily get skewed by a few high-end homes being sold (or not sold). Three months is better, a year us more so yet.

[JoeKW]

Amazon's not really a great place to work at (although anecdotes do vary). I wouldn't like to see their style of management in this region.

[DHLawrence]

I know someone who worked in one of their warehouses and burned out in about a month.

[plam]

I know someone who worked in one of their warehouses and burned out in about a month.

Warehouses are different from the white collar work at Amazon. Amazon is trying to replace workers by robots in the warehouses at least. Working in tech at Amazon is a somewhat different story. Amazon is one of the major employers of UWaterloo's SE and CS grads.

[Markster]

Warehouses are different from the white collar work at Amazon. Amazon is trying to replace workers by robots in the warehouses at least. Working in tech at Amazon is a somewhat different story. Amazon is one of the major employers of UWaterloo's SE and CS grads.

I have a lot of friends who used to work for Amazon, in white collar coding jobs. They pretty much universally said that the job was grueling. They were extremely well paid, but the emotional cost was not worth it.

This was generally ~4 years ago, so it's plausible that the company culture has changed since then.