General Urban Kitchener Updates and Rumours

[tomh009]

One of the employees at the current downtown LCBO suggested that the goal for opening of the new site was either March or January (!). I misheard, but one of those two.

There is no building permit yet so surely January is all but impossible.  March, maybe, if they are limiting the amount of new construction.

[MidTowner]

I was told about this back in June by one of the clerks there. She said at that time they were being told around the new year. I asked a different one the other week, and she just shrugged, alluded (as they often have) to the lack of communication to them by management. She did say they weren't betting on January any more.

[LesPio]

A few months ago there was some discussion on here (this thread p126 to p127) about a potential Manulife project Downtown, I wonder if this is the project Mr. Etherington was referring to next to the Tannery.

Manulife looking at big development for downtown Kitchener parking lot

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/796...rking-lot/

[jgsz]

SIXO, 100 and 120 Victoria S, Charlie West, City Centre 2 (?), Drewlo on King E. Arrow Lofts 2.  Maybe he's including Breithaupt Block 3 as "Downtown".  What else?

Maybe each tower at SIXO and 100 Victoria is being counted separately? Also the Nougat / garage condo project beside the Iron Horse Trail should be in the list. Barra Castle is not a high-rise but otherwise fits with the premise of Etherington's article.

The latest in today's Record reports:

The Manulife application is among 10 active site plan applications for downtown projects under review by the city. The applicants want to secure approvals and take out building permits before the end of February 2018. 

SIXO is still looking for financial partners so that project is probably not included.  And if they started Arrow Lofts 2 that wouldn't be under review anymore.  It will be very interesting to see what is submitted for review by the end of February.

[panamaniac]

A few months ago there was some discussion on here (this thread p126 to p127) about a potential Manulife project Downtown, I wonder if this is the project Mr. Etherington was referring to next to the Tannery.

Manulife looking at big development for downtown Kitchener parking lot

https://www.therecord.com/news-story/796...rking-lot/

So the rumours were true!

[tomh009]

The Manulife application is among 10 active site plan applications for downtown projects under review by the city. The applicants want to secure approvals and take out building permits before the end of February 2018.

SIXO is still looking for financial partners so that project is probably not included.  And if they started Arrow Lofts 2 that wouldn't be under review anymore.  It will be very interesting to see what is submitted for review by the end of February.

SIXO could still have submitted a site plan, it depends on the approach they are taking.

Arrow 2 and 100 Victoria are under construction so those would indeed not be included.  But this doesn't specify high-rise so it could include projects like 345 King and the proposed condo on David St.

[panamaniac]

There was a passing mention (nothing specific) the other week in SCC about possible development on the Manulife parking lot, which is one corner at Charles and Francis. I would have thought the municipal parking lot between Charles and Hall's Lane might be more likely - someone told me years ago that the City envisaged a Downtown supermarket in that general area.  

The vision is good. But getting one of the grocery chains to sign up for an urban-format store is easier said than done. They seem to believe that we need a lot more people downtown before such a store is viable.

With the residential projects newly built, underway, or proposed, plus the growing number of people working nearby, I would think that things are getting close to the point that could sustain at least an "urban format" grocery store.  Having the LCBO steps away will be a nice bonus.  If Zehrs were still a local company, I could see them being all over this.

[Lens]

Consider the fact that there isn't and hasn't been a fitting site for an urban chain grocer to set up in DTK. Market Square would be the only one but it has been modified and relatively full in before Stantec left. Most larger urban grocery stores I've been to in Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa etc. are in newer buildings, designed for these stores. There just simply hasn't been any new build retail space added downtown in 20+ years and a lot of chain companies, and grocer's want that.

[tomh009]

A friend approached all the major grocery chains when looking for a grocery store tenant for a DTK property. Basically the conversations never got as far as the specific property, he was told that DTK needs thousands more people living in the core before they would be interested in setting up an urban store.

Now, this is second-hand anecdotal evidence but at least I do believe it ...

[Viewfromthe42]

Definitely not thousands more people downtown for quite some time, especially when councillors like Etherington are fretting about even allowing density on top of the LRT line (!), and this site is halfway between two different LRT stops, one of which is split. So I'd hazard a guess that we're still quite a ways off, and this feels almost more like an appeasement to Etherington and his kin than real possibility.

[Markster]

Yeah, I don't see a major national/regional chain moving in for a long while.
They have their business plans. Either a suburban store with ample parking, or an urban format designed for Toronto or Vancouver density.

I would expect to get something more local. Kind of like Waterloo Central Supermarket in Campus Court plaza near the University.

[embe]

Is Central Fresh Market still around? I always considered that to be more of a centrally located grocery store in a decent location (in terms of surrounding density, not so much accessibility with construction)

[Pheidippides]

I realize the mark-ups/profit margins are exponentially different, but I think it is sad state of our society that the population cannot support a store that sells essential needs (i.e. food) but can sustain a store that sells wants (i.e. alcohol).

[tomh009]

Is Central Fresh Market still around?  I always considered that to be more of a centrally located grocery store in a decent location (in terms of surrounding density, not so much accessibility with construction)

Yes, it is.

[tomh009]

I realize the mark-ups/profit margins are exponentially different, but I think it is sad state of our society that the population cannot support a store that sells essential needs (i.e. food) but can sustain a store that sells wants (i.e. alcohol).

I would argue that the population can indeed support a grocery store.  Even a tiny one like Legacy Greens can succeed.  But a major grocery chain may still see the opportunity as too small to bother with.